Mom has often spoken of a future persecution of the churches here in America for as long as my memory can recall. I have never doubted that America will lose its power, wealth, and authority. I do believe that it might be possible that the government will eventually confiscate church property and the property (no matter who little) of Christians in order to balance the debts that they owe. The only ones that would be exempted would be those who toe the line the governement draws.
Sounds to me like your mother is a wise woman.
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Originally Posted by Jay
If such a thing should happen (and why not when many churches sit in prime locations in multi-million dollar buildings), perhaps all Christians will remember the meaning and message, "This world is not my home. I'm just a'passin' through. My treasures are laid up just beyond the blue. The angels beckon me from Heaven's open door, and I just can't feel at home in this world any more."
It would be better for churches to meet in smaller buildings and split as they outgrow a building for a new work. This is the way it should be. Just see how much money is spent on buildings, mortgages, insurance and utilities when the money spent could be used for outreach. James 2:15-17
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Originally Posted by Jay
I think that you might be correct. However, it might also be that the Lord will raise some who can send food to those who are undergoing severe persecution at a given time. This would allow them to help sustain their brothers and sisters.
Or maybe God will send to us manna or send the ravens to feed us. Either way I will not complain. I would love to taste the ancient manna.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
A lot of people in the Bible lied too. But Corrie did not deny Jesus. She prayed for protection and ministered to her fellow prisoners openly using her bible in front of the guards. Bible study was prohibited as well as the bible. She prayed for God to allow her to keep the Word.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Refer to the "What if there was no God" thread. A lot of folks there are saying they'd be pretty horrible people, if there was no God. They worry me.
Man, I'm down at the whole "I don't do bad things because there is a God," "People should get 'saved' to avoid hell" trip that people who still think that they are somehow representing Christ are on. It's no wonder Christ has yet to be revealed, if this is the top of the mark. You will never experience Heaven if you are only reasonably sure you might be avoiding hell. Yikes, I mean, that even reads like oxymoron.
How did we get from "I came that you might have life, and more abundantly," to "I can't wait to die, and 'go to Heaven,'" again?
Man, I'm down at the whole "I don't do bad things because there is a God," "People should get 'saved' to avoid hell" trip that people who still think that they are somehow representing Christ are on. It's no wonder Christ has yet to be revealed, if this is the top of the mark. You will never experience Heaven if you are only reasonably sure you might be avoiding hell. Yikes, I mean, that even reads like oxymoron.
How did we get from "I came that you might have life, and more abundantly," to "I can't wait to die, and 'go to Heaven,'" again?
Oh, ya; I remember.
I don't really understand your objection. The Bible does teach that you should get saved to avoid hell! The alternative to abundant life is horrible torture forever. What is so wrong with wanting to escape that?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Oh, nothing. Just that it completely misses the point. We extract that the Bible teaches that you should get saved to avoid hell, because this is naturally what we fixate on, saving our little, personal butts. So, congrats, you've avoided hell. Now what?
With this common, almost universal model, "more avoidance of hell" is what.
"I came that you might avoid hell, and avoid it more completely" is certainly valid, but see how the focus is shifted.
Are you scared of hell? Then you should not be trying to witness for Christ, who trust me is not scared of hell, and running from it. Just exactly the opposite. You postulate two states, "abundant life...horrible torture forever," and I must point out that you cannot be worried about the second and still invested in the first--they are mutually incompatible. We are not called to run scared from hell, like the lost. Actually, I'm kind of surprised this is coming from you?
1 Corinthians 10:13 KJV (13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
That means no experience is too much for us to be able to withstand denying the Lord. Otherwise, God is a liar.
No it doesn't... talk about stretching a scripture until it screams... sheesh!
I don't really understand your objection. The Bible does teach that you should get saved to avoid hell! The alternative to abundant life is horrible torture forever. What is so wrong with wanting to escape that?
Timmy please go back and re-read your bible. leaving your religious teaching and training behind. There is no 'immortal soul' there. We do not live forever anywhere without receiving the spirit of God. Those who do not receive 'life eternal' simply perish... that may be permanent (not eternal) separation from God or a 'final' destruction... but nowhere, ever, does the bible support the idea of eternal torment.
No it doesn't... talk about stretching a scripture until it screams... sheesh!
No kidding. Let's sit around parsing death all day, why don't we. Maybe some of us will somehow majikally avoid hell. Yikes.
Anyone noticed yet how in all the available accounts of near-death experiences, we have (or at least I have) yet to hear an account that goes, "OMG, the flames! The torture! I'm going to a church RIGHT NOW." lol
AFF, where you can do EVERY and ANY thing and still be saved.
I see you are still here with these people that you seem to disapprove of... So after that comment ... tell us please, and not in the one liner or half-liner that you usually use...
What is it you believe is necessary to be saved Houston?
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