T2W, most people make the same statement you make before they get married (And this is at the heart of the matter for me, I simply believe that God will always equip me for my mission, easy or hard).
The divorce rate in Christianity, which includes Apostolics, is just as high as mainstream Society. Even dedicated Christians fail in their promises, especially when times get tough.
We can step out on our "Mission" with great intention and hope, but when the walls crumble to the ground, even we can fall apart with grief, despising the day of our birth like Job did.
If that's your best analogy I'm all good... Our marriage has been the hardest thing either of us has ever done
All of us are going to die. I have seen a fair amount of death in my work. Some of it is excruciatingly painful, yet those who suffer hold on to an amazing amount of dignity much of the time. I am not sure that being boiled could be so much more physically painful than cancer that has invaded the nerves of the spine... I'll just stop the examples right there.... you get the point, I'm sure. I have seen God carry those folks to a place where they can and do endure what they must. I trust that He will do the same for me, however I die. That is not a statement I found in a fortune cookie, it is very real to me.
Last edited by Titus2woman; 02-14-2012 at 03:46 PM.
If that's your best analogy I'm all good... Our marriage has been the hardest thing either of us has ever done
All of us are going to die. I have seen a fair amount of death in my work. Some of it is excruciatingly painful, yet those who suffer hold on to an amazing amount of dignity much of the time. I am not sure that being boiled could be so much more physically painful than cancer that has invaded the nerves of the spine... I'll just stop the examples right there.... you get the point, I'm sure. I have seen God carry those folks to a place where they can and do endure what they must. I trust that He will do the same for me, however I die. That is not a statement I found on a fortune cookie, it is very real to me.
Have to agree on that one (about marriage)! I've been married 31 years, and that has been one, tough journey at times.
The vision I get here is that if you were bringing the fight to them, in a sense, any torture they can dish out is negligible. And if you were huddled in a proverbial hole, cowering in fear, why are we even discussing you.
Ah, ok, I guess there is a third option, those in the middle here...oh, nevermind.
I dunno if this was brought up before, or even if it's this particular scripture the conversation comes from, but 2 Timothy 2:12 tells us
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us.
When Peter denied Christ, do you think he meant it in his heart? Does the word say he meant it in his heart? I have to believe he wasn't saying to himself "I don't believe in Jesus". He simply said the words "I know him not" I believe that's all it takes to deny Christ.
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1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Very good point. I changed my mind here; I dislike the possible timing here for a brand new Christian, as this strikes me as something more for someone on meat, and the focus in general bugs me, but I doubt any Christians that die today for their faith will appreciate my position there, new Christians included. Ha I'm really no closer to knowing what I might do in that situation, but gotta believe that one's unwillingness to recant is at least a strong measure of their faith.
Oh, nothing. Just that it completely misses the point. We extract that the Bible teaches that you should get saved to avoid hell, because this is naturally what we fixate on, saving our little, personal butts. So, congrats, you've avoided hell. Now what?
With this common, almost universal model, "more avoidance of hell" is what.
"I came that you might avoid hell, and avoid it more completely" is certainly valid, but see how the focus is shifted.
Are you scared of hell? Then you should not be trying to witness for Christ, who trust me is not scared of hell, and running from it. Just exactly the opposite. You postulate two states, "abundant life...horrible torture forever," and I must point out that you cannot be worried about the second and still invested in the first--they are mutually incompatible. We are not called to run scared from hell, like the lost. Actually, I'm kind of surprised this is coming from you?
I don't believe it. But I thought you believed the Bible. Do you deny that it teaches what I said it teaches?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Timmy please go back and re-read your bible. leaving your religious teaching and training behind. There is no 'immortal soul' there. We do not live forever anywhere without receiving the spirit of God. Those who do not receive 'life eternal' simply perish... that may be permanent (not eternal) separation from God or a 'final' destruction... but nowhere, ever, does the bible support the idea of eternal torment.
You do know that a lot of Christians disagree, right? I could list some scriptures that do support eternal torment, but you'd just interpret them another way, so there's no point. Pretty much any scripture can be taken multiple ways. I maintain that a straight reading of some of them teaches eternal torment. Hmm. Maybe I should find them and reread them. Eh. Not that motivated right now. It's been a long day.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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