I know, this strikes Christians as heresy, huh? That you are somehow not qualified to make a judgement about someone else's relationship with God...sure you need a Scripture for that?
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
I'll expand my thoughts just a little here as well.
Many times it is the 'sinners prayer' that includes the term 'accept Jesus as personal savior' and those that have come to Christ in denominations that practice it that repeat the terms quoted by the original poster. For that reason I saw the original post as a slight to those who express faith this way.
It is often the postition of OPs that these people can not 'recieve' salvation in this way. Yet, I personally have lived long enough to know people who have come to Christ in just this way, including those who have lived and died in the faith without wavering. It is the single point that drives me from the UPCI like no other.
Over the years I have met many in other denominations who more fully understood their reason for baptism than many who slide beneath the water of Oness Pentecostal Baptistries. Many who have a faithful prayer life, who have witnessed signs and wonders following, who have remained faithful through extreme adversity.... Yet if you asked the average OP... while they would say 'I would not judge' ... in their heart of hearts they believe that these people of other denominations are indeed lost for lack of following the three step formula.
I do not express my own conversion as 'accepting Jesus' but I do not wonder about any who do, personally believing that between them and God. But then again I'm a very eyes on my own paper kind of girl.
The three-step "formula" is not something I am not used to discussing. I am assuming that it means 1. repentance. 2 baptism in Jesus name. 3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost. While I believe in all three, I don't think that God has put His plan into a "formula". LOL. I have been in the wilderness for almost 20 years so I am wondering is this formula talk something relatively new as I never heard it preached when I was attending UPC services ?
I, like you, cannot say that any person is lost or saved because it is not up to me. God makes those judgments. I am glad no human has that right for far too many will judge another into hell too easily.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
The three-step "formula" is not something I am not used to discussing. I am assuming that it means 1. repentance. 2 baptism in Jesus name. 3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost. While I believe in all three, I don't think that God has put His plan into a "formula". LOL. I have been in the wilderness for almost 20 years so I am wondering is this formula talk something relatively new as I never heard it preached when I was attending UPC services ?
I, like you, cannot say that any person is lost or saved because it is not up to me. God makes those judgments. I am glad no human has that right for far too many will judge another into hell too easily.
Ya, it was discovered that rules and regs weren't working; they're trying a formula now. you nailed it.
How do you define lost? I bet I fit. But don't call me lost or.......
Personally, is how I define "lost." I try, like surely every seeker, to define terms Scripturally, being open to an even higher def that will usually emerge from that, that being God's definition, as I think even the best religious definitions, from Scripture, are just that--religious definitions, attempts to understand God with man's understanding, that must fall short.
"Gather together the broken pieces that are over,
that nothing may be lost..."
Lost to me means "ignorant of truth," and other def's. You know I disagree with the "switch being thrown" theory, and I believe you are ignorant in some areas, and more knowledgeable than the pope in other, surely more important ones. Just like everyone else.
The problem when I judge your condition is that now I'm somehow compelled to fix you, rather than help you, and many Christians, I'd say most in the West, take this to mean proselytizing, when it is anything but, don't you think? Try that in many countries, and see what happens...and you can say that that's because they are heathen all you like, that doesn't make it true. You are satan when you do this to another person. Rather than demonstrating your belief, you are talking about it...
Personally, is how I define "lost." I try, like surely every seeker, to define terms Scripturally, being open to an even higher def that will usually emerge from that, that being God's definition, as I think even the best religious definitions, from Scripture, are just that--religious definitions, attempts to understand God with man's understanding, that must fall short.
"Gather together the broken pieces that are over,
that nothing may be lost..."
Lost to me means "ignorant of truth," and other def's. You know I disagree with the "switch being thrown" theory, and I believe you are ignorant in some areas, and more knowledgeable than the pope in other, surely more important ones. Just like everyone else.
The problem when I judge your condition is that now I'm somehow compelled to fix you, rather than help you, and many Christians, I'd say most in the West, take this to mean proselytizing, when it is anything but, don't you think? Try that in many countries, and see what happens...and you can say that that's because they are heathen all you like, that doesn't make it true. You are satan when you do this to another person. Rather than demonstrating your belief, you are talking about it...
Are you saying Christians who "witness" to the "lost" and try to "save" them are "satan"?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I believe the difference in my and many Christian's interpretation here lies in the definition of the word witness.
But categorically, yes. Well intentioned, mis-informed, death-centric invitations to participate in a funeral, imo. When you are doing it right, they are looking for you, because you bring life, and quoting a Scripture at them is pointless. Anti-Christ. People flocked to hear Jesus, who was a relative unknown at the time--He did not flock to the lost in this sense.
Personally, is how I define "lost." I try, like surely every seeker, to define terms Scripturally, being open to an even higher def that will usually emerge from that, that being God's definition, as I think even the best religious definitions, from Scripture, are just that--religious definitions, attempts to understand God with man's understanding, that must fall short.
"Gather together the broken pieces that are over,
that nothing may be lost..."
Lost to me means "ignorant of truth," and other def's. You know I disagree with the "switch being thrown" theory, and I believe you are ignorant in some areas, and more knowledgeable than the pope in other, surely more important ones. Just like everyone else.
The problem when I judge your condition is that now I'm somehow compelled to fix you, rather than help you, and many Christians, I'd say most in the West, take this to mean proselytizing, when it is anything but, don't you think? Try that in many countries, and see what happens...and you can say that that's because they are heathen all you like, that doesn't make it true. You are satan when you do this to another person. Rather than demonstrating your belief, you are talking about it...
Dude...uh??
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...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
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