Here's a question...imagine either all you know is the old testament, or you knew nothing biblical. How would you have judged Jesus? Honestly...pretend you're not a Jesus...ist...for a moment.
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1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
How can I push the "down" button on you when I don't know you? I only know what you let me see of you.
God knows all our inwards and outwards. Only man has put criteria on other humans ...standards of clues to your and mine inward thoughts and actions.. This causes people to resort to wearing masks of all sorts so that people do not judge them.
I'm not a believer. What more do you need to know? John 3:18.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Naw Timmy... it's too complicated for an up/down button.
Can you just imagine, with all the different facets of personality, character, moral leanings, teaching, training,circumstance, nature, nurture, situational compensation, intelligence, etc. that we are able to identify in our fellow humans to help know what makes them tick... how much more God knows?
The scales of justice and mercy are going to be weighing us by a more complex measure than we can imagine. All we can hope for one another is that we'll do OK.
You have a point there. By John 3:18, I'm condemned. By John 13:35, I'm one of Jesus' followers. I have the fruit of the Spirit, by Gal 5:22-23. (To an extent, anyway!) By Matthew 25 (the sheep and the goats), it's a mixed bag. (I've taken in some strangers that came to my door, but not all. Given food to some hungry, but not all. Etc.) I don't love Jesus more than I love my family, so I'm not worthy of Him. (Maybe that last one is all you need to know? )
But my point is that I don't think people are as judgmental as God (as portrayed in the Bible), at least when it comes to ending his life (in most cases) or deciding his eternal fate. Look how God judged Moses, at the end of the journey. One little mistake, and wham! No promised land for you! The first born of Egypt -- many of them were tiny children who didn't do anything, and they were judged (killed!) for their king's "sin"! (A "sin" that Pharaoh wouldn't even have committed if God hadn't hardened his heart.) Little children making fun of a prophet -- would you have sent the bears after them?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well, but you point to the subjective nature of understanding? "One little mistake" to you is actually an act of treason that your president would kill you for, right now today. And you take "God hardened his heart" to mean that God actively did something here to harden Pharoah's heart, when this is not true, or at least can be understood differently with an open mind? "Pharoah's heart was hardened because of God" is another translation, which points to the probability that God didn't do anything here except "Be," and Pharoah's heart was hardened because he saw that he was not in fact God.
You can insist on interpretations that lack understanding all you like, this will not make God into satan, no matter how hard you try. Moses was denied the Promised land as a type, so that we might see that it is easy to suppose some earthly sovereignty, and that people might even encourage you in this, but that doesn't sanctify it before God, and it will cost you your place in the Kingdom.
Um, and those first-born of Egypt? Their parents got the same warning that the Hebrews got, and my understanding is that there is some evidence that many Egyptians complied with the "Passover" here and were not stricken, although I've forgotten where I heard this. The point is it is most obviously sure to be true. If you believed that your Pharoah was a god, you now have cause to doubt, yes? Your sorrow for some babies being returned to their reward seems naive, and misplaced here. Are you sorry for the devil, too?
Well, but you point to the subjective nature of understanding? "One little mistake" to you is actually an act of treason that your president would kill you for, right now today. And you take "God hardened his heart" to mean that God actively did something here to harden Pharoah's heart, when this is not true, or at least can be understood differently with an open mind? "Pharoah's heart was hardened because of God" is another translation, which points to the probability that God didn't do anything here except "Be," and Pharoah's heart was hardened because he saw that he was not in fact God.
Yes, of course there are many possible translations and interpretations of every scripture. Which one is correct? Who knows? Should we strive to find, from among all the possible (regardless of how much stretching is needed) meanings the one that makes God look the least bad? The KJV and all the others I have checked are far, far from that. It clearly says that God took action to force Pharaoh to say "no" to Moses.
"but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go." KJV
"But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. " NIV
"But I’ll make him stubborn so that he won’t let the people go." Common English Bible
"But I will make the king stubborn, and he will not let the people go." Good News Translation
"But I will harden his heart so he will refuse to let the people go." New Living Translation
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
You can insist on interpretations that lack understanding all you like, this will not make God into satan, no matter how hard you try....
I am reading what is there. I am not adding to it or twisting it. My interpretations are different from yours. Which of us lacks understanding is a matter of opinion.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
... Your sorrow for some babies being returned to their reward seems naive, and misplaced here.
Returned to their reward? The Bible doesn't say anything about their reward. Do you believe all babies that die are given a reward? Well, please stop. That leads to baby killing. And that is not merely a hypothetical. People of modern times have killed their own children to ensure their eternal reward.
Quote:
Are you sorry for the devil, too?
No. Why would you ask that?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
But my point is that I don't think people are as judgmental as God (as portrayed in the Bible), at least when it comes to ending his life (in most cases) or deciding his eternal fate. Look how God judged Moses, at the end of the journey. One little mistake, and wham! No promised land for you! The first born of Egypt -- many of them were tiny children who didn't do anything, and they were judged (killed!) for their king's "sin"! (A "sin" that Pharaoh wouldn't even have committed if God hadn't hardened his heart.) Little children making fun of a prophet -- would you have sent the bears after them?
Timmy, do you believe that the Bible is complete in it's contents as we read it now?
Moses made one little mistake? The bible does not tell us why God chose that particular "little mistake" to punish Moses. God has His reasons why He does things.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
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