Not trying to misrepresent you. You stated; The key to receiving a healing or miracle is to be willing to suffer illness, injury, death, deprivation, uncertainty, and rely totally on God to see you out.
I believe the key is not as you describe, though I would not say willingness and faith are not important. The key is the will of God.
Faith and willingness to go where God wants us to go are crucial to the believer, but not just for healing in particular. We are victorious - even in death.
I think Jay is saying that if you want to see a healing you have to be willing to be ill -to receive a healing.
I think Jay is saying that if you want to see a healing you have to be willing to be ill - to receive a healing.
Perhaps. Most people that claim to see and do miracles are not the sick ones though...
Furthermore there is no shortage of sick and diseased people. It does not make sense that it would be required to have more go to deaths door to raise them up, though in specific cases that may best glorify God.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Perhaps. Most people that claim to see and do miracles are not the sick ones though...
Furthermore there is no shortage of sick and diseased people. It does not make sense that it would be required to have more go to deaths door to raise them up, though in specific cases that may best glorify God.
I am going to stick with the word miracles here for a while with the understanding that healings are to be factored in.
In order for a miracle to occur, there must be a need. Many people claim that they wish to see miracles when they really mean that they wish to perform miracles. I do not believe that this is necessarily wrong, but perhaps the motivation is based in a subtle desire for personal glory.
The way to lose that subtle pride (and keep it gone) is to undergo the trials and suffering that cause a need for miracles in ones own personal life. The Apostle Paul himself is an example of this principal, as are other men in Scripture. Moses had a speech impediment (appears to have been life long). Elijah lived a lonely life with few friends or companions. Sammuel had his sons and spiritual protoge, Saul, depart from walking in the ways of God. The Apostles all were tortured, afflicted, and persecuted wherever they went. And there are more that can be listed. Daniel was a permanent captive after being taken as hostage from his family in Jerusalem as a youth. All of these endured suffering, deprivation, illness, and even death in order to be used mightily by God.
We also see that all miracles were based on needs with very few on wants. Mannah every morning to feed hungry Israelites. Fire from heaven to vindicate the true God against Baal, the plagues that destroyed Egypt to release the Israelites from bondage, the parting of the Red Sea to provide a way of escape, waters in the desert that appeared via the power of God, sudden storms that destroyed invading enemies, the raising of the widow's son by Elijah, the raising of the Shunamite's son by Elisha, the raising of the dead man in the tomb of Elisha, the miracles of poisonous food being eaten, axe head swimming, water into wine, lepers cleansed, dead raised, lame walking, mute talking, and devils fleeing. All of these were miracles of necessity, and you will noticed that I have missed a large number of them.
Everyone of these people had needs that had to be met and had to be met now. Jesus might not have raised the young man in the casket, except fot the fact that his mother was a widdow and had no other children and needed him. The beloved servant of the Roman was a witness to the power of God. Not everyone received a miracle in the same way. Witness the difference between the lepers who were cleansed verses those made whole. The woman who had an issue of blood needed a healing right then.
Pain and suffering are the prerequisties to performing or receiving a miracle. There are very few possible exceptions, and I doubt that any can be found. We sometimes sing the song "Have Thine Own Way," but how often do we really mean that. God gives us trials and tests so that we may profit His kingdom and reveal His power and glory.
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I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.
Not trying to misrepresent you. You stated; The key to receiving a healing or miracle is to be willing to suffer illness, injury, death, deprivation, uncertainty, and rely totally on God to see you out.
I believe the key is not as you describe, though I would not say willingness and faith are not important. The key is the will of God.
Faith and willingness to go where God wants us to go are crucial to the believer, but not just for healing in particular. We are victorious - even in death.
Absolutely great points here. So many times we fail to remember that God sees the overall big picture of His plan, and many times, our agenda, desires and wants just don't fit within His overall plan for the Kingdom...
Last night I received a text message from a young minister friend. He asked "Why don't we see healings?" I was getting ready for work and replied that I'd have an answer for him today. I thought about it through my shift, and honestly, I don't know what to say to him.
Your thoughts??
And now after all this dialogue and discussion, what are you going to say to your friend?
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
It says if you ask God to do something, and if He wants to do it, He will do it. It really can't fail, can it? Ask Him to do something. If it happens, He wanted to do it and did it. If it doesn't happen, He didn't want to do it, so He didn't. Simple!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I think when this question arises, we have the tendency to compare today with the days of the great "Healing Revivals" of the 40's and 50's. Now, to be sure not to appear to be disparaging anyone, I'll refrain from naming names.
There are several reasons why we don't see miracles as prevalent today as in years gone by. One reason is that history has been somewhat colored. We read about great miracles in the 50s, but, we must bear in mind, the "healing ministry" was a highly competitive field in days gone by. There were many reports of great healings that were, well, not. Some celebrated miracles of healings that were reported were exagerated. One case that supposedly took place in Birmingham was of a young man who had multiple incurable diseases who was "healed". The report of his "healing" made headlines in several religious publications of the day. What didn't make headlines, what was never even mentioned, was the fact that the young man died a year after his "healing". His death was caused by the very diseases from which he was "healed" of. The fact is, many of the evangelists of the day, tried to "out-do" one another with their claims, which led the AOG to attempt to "reign" in some of the evangelists. The AOG was accused of killing the healing revival in the last 50's.
So, its a miistake to compare today to the 40's and 50's. We should look to the Life and Ministry of Jesus for the answer to our question. Jesus began His earthly ministry by calling, training and commissioning His disciples. Then He began an earnest "evengelistic" ministry by travelling to different cities to preach and teach. (Matt. 4:23) During this phase of His ministry, many "great and notable" miracles took place. Blind eyes were opened, the lame walked, demons were cast out, the dead were even raised.
However, when Jesus "drew nigh to Jerusalem" (Matt. 21:1), a change took place in the His ministry. Miracles of healing were "de-emphasized" while Jesus began to earnestly teach the Word of God. Miracles still took place, but with far less frequency as Jesus focused on the teaching of the Word (To prepare his followers to His impending depature).
Its interesting to note how the Ministry of the Holy Spirit in these last days corresponds the earthly Ministry of Jesus in these last days.
1) Apostlic- Calling the disciples, training and commissioning them and setting goverment in His church. (Luke 5- 10)
1a) The Holy Ghost was poured out in the 1900's, churches were established, ministries came forward and organized.
2) Evangelistic- Jesus travelled from city to city to preach. Miracles of healing and deliverance were emphasized.
2b) In the 40s, a great "healing revival" came forward. Initially, the campaigns were of a "union nature", bringing the fractured Body of Christ together. However, the competitive nature of the era soon disrupted unity and the healing revival began to fall apart in the lat 50s.
3. Teaching- As miracles were "de-empaphasized" in Jesus' ministry, He began to earnestly teach the Word of God to those who wold hear.
3c- In the 60s, "teaching" ministries began to take center stage. Miracles of healing became less prominent as "charismatic" teachers and (unfortunately in some cases) Word of Faith ministries began "teaching ministries. (The UPC reports that the 60's and 70's were their "banner years" for teaching materials).
4) Pastoral- With His departure at hand, Jesus returned to Jerusalem to began a pstoral ministry to comfort and prepare His Church.
4d- The 90's saw rise to an increase in the pastoral ministry. Churches grew larger, giving rise to the "mega-churches". Church were being built and/or expanded.
5. Prophetic- During the closing days of Jesus' ministry, His focus was on the prophetic. In answer to the question "What shall be the sign of thy coming?", Jesus beagn to prophesy of the signs of His appearing. ( Luke 21- Matt. 24)
5e- One need only listen to what is being preached today to know we are in the prophetic days of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. We are in, I believe, the last of the last days.
The pattern as set forth in the earthly ministry of Jesus is being repeated in His spiritual ministry today.
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"Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him...." -Psa. 37:7
Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: 15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
It says if you ask God to do something, and if He wants to do it, He will do it. It really can't fail, can it? Ask Him to do something. If it happens, He wanted to do it and did it. If it doesn't happen, He didn't want to do it, so He didn't. Simple!
This ignores that God would not have done it if you had not intervened and requested that will of God here on earth--or may have done it through someone else, etc?
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