Jesus Beyond Religion

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by forgivenson

I think most of our problems being close to God, is very comparable with the the episode in the garden ......9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? I do not think God is hard to find, just the opposite.

Amen. And He is not religious, either.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Don't let anyone kid you, JS; those are the guys Christ railed against, the conditional salvation types. If you are earnestly seeking God, your discernment will serve you just fine; and there is a spirit of Discernment that can/will become a friend. You succinctly state the drawback of religion at the end. I didn't find Christ until I left religion. Praying for you.
http://www.wikihow.com/Lose-Your-Religion

I know what you mean. I'm just over the idea that God is like a slot machine that ya gotta pay into, not talking about tithe, pull the lever and hope to hit all "7's". No matter how you package it most churches are similar, IMO.

[RiverMorgaine]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

I know Jesus was on earth and He didn't like the religious but to some degree I don't if you can have Jesus without religion too. There is always rules that accompmay Jesus. Not talking about the thou shalt not kill type of thing, but man made rules that make trying following Jesus without religion almost impossible.

This is what the Bible says about religion. (By the way, James 1 is a great chapter to read.)

James 1:26-27
26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

All I know is I am trying to follow GOD. Not church. I love church, and it's important to find one that teaches full truth, not just the parts that are comfortable. But religion without relationship is just a set of rules to follow.

Matthew 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

To do His will, we have to know what it is. And we can't know what it is unless we ask. Seek answers. Pursue God. Pursue the TRUTH. All of it. Not just the pleasant parts of the truth.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by RiverMorgaine

Hi, Jay.

First, thanks for posting this. I definitely had to do a little research before forming my reply, and it was very illuminating.

Yes, I did know that there are other words for "love" in the Bible. And you're right, God does place conditions on man. But those conditions have nothing to do with how much He loves us. He will judge us and punish us if we don't turn from sin and live for Him. But He loves us, even if we aren't living up to the "standards and conditions" that He has placed upon us. If you are a parent, you set rules (standards of conduct) for your children. If those rules are broken, your child receives punishment. But you do not love your child any less for disobeying you.

Romans 5:8 says, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." He loved us, even though we were sinners and disobeyed Him. In my research however, I admit I was a bit taken aback by such verses of scripture as Psalm 5:5. "The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." So I decided to research that word for "hate" in the Hebrew that Psalm 5 is written in. What I found is that it doesn't quite have the same meaning and connotations that we give to the word "hate" in English.

When the Bible mentions loving one thing and hating another in Hebrew, it suggests a preference for one over the other. "... yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau..." (Malachi 1:2-3) And "prefer" doesn't just mean liking one thing more than another. "Prefer" also means to give something higher priority, to choose something over something else.

So if we go back to Psalm 5:5, that word for "hate" in Hebrew is "sane'," pronounced saw-nay. It means "to distance oneself" or "to not prefer". The same word for "hate" that is used in that verse is used in Malachi 1:2-3 to describe God's preference for Jacob over Esau.

God does not hate any of us in the way you or I would say we hate, despise, or loathe someone. God does SEPARATE himself from those who are "workers of iniquity." But His love for us is not in any way diminished.

I do not believe that you and I are in disagreement (at least so far). I had wondered about your statement in your post, but you have clarified the position well. I have eagerly anticipate engaging in further discussion.

[RiverMorgaine]

Originally Posted by Jay

I do not believe that you and I are in disagreement (at least so far). I had wondered about your statement in your post, but you have clarified the position well. I have eagerly anticipate engaging in further discussion.

Thanks, Jay. I look forward to it.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by forgivenson

I think most of our problems being close to God, is very comparable with the the episode in the garden ......9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? I do not think God is hard to find, just the opposite.

Excellent point. Too many people place the closeness of Jesus in their lives by what they feel and sense instead of what they know.

Permissive sin causes the conscious mind to make people feel like they are no longer near the Lord, faith on the other hand assures us that we are.
No matter what the day may bring.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Don't let anyone kid you, JS; those are the guys Christ railed against, the conditional salvation types. If you are earnestly seeking God, your discernment will serve you just fine; and there is a spirit of Discernment that can/will become a friend. You succinctly state the drawback of religion at the end. I didn't find Christ until I left religion. Praying for you.
http://www.wikihow.com/Lose-Your-Religion

Good point!!

[Austin]

Jesus is an experience daily. You and him are the same in spirit if your spiritually born again by His power.

If His spirit is in you then your motivated, strengthened, and inspired by that inner man in your spirit area.

That nature of God is your law, not the constitutions of religious mankind trying to govern people into obedience as they see and think it should be
.
When we find others that are similar to us in thought and nature then we have perfect fellowship with them and we have that assembly which centers on Jesus and not some organization.

Neither does it corner scriptures in the bible, and neglect others in the bible because they don't fit their religious governmental rule.

I always have taken attention to how quickly religious people reject you when they find out your not like them in your beliefs. I'm personally glad that Jesus didn't do that to me when He found me and said, " Come unto me and I will give you rest."

He could have said, " If you get baptised, speak in tongues, and follow all the commandments, and never sin then I will give you rest."

Most of the people who harp on religious rule don't really follow it themselves, it makes them feel justified from their own error by railing on someone else.

I'm an older man, and I can assure you there are no perfect people in Christ Jesus outside of His justification, trust me. If they try to tell you they sin by accident then they are sinning again by lying.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi RM,

You said:




Where is that in the Bible?

God's love is without conditions. God isn't a pagan deity that has to be appeased in order for Him to love us. That's performance based religion. Please note this...

Romans 5:7-8
English Standard Version (ESV)
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

God loved us while we were yet sinners. Yes, before you knew God, He looked at you sinning your life away...with love. Even when God chastizes us, He loves us. And I'd go as far as say that God even loves those souls that He must impose eternal justice upon.

If we imply that God loves with conditions, we have to set forth what those conditions are Michael. And every religionist will give us a different set of conditions. lol

What are those conditions Michael?

It's important to remember that love isn't a trait, attribute, or thing that God does. Love is a thing that God IS. It's part of His very essence.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jay

There are also other words for love in the Greek. Brotherly love (phileo) and romantic love (eros) are just another two.

Further, if one investigates the Bible in its fulness, it is quick to reveal that God does have standards and conditions that He places upon man. This is because He has many other aspects to His character. It is as much a mistake to place an exclusive foccus on His love as it is on His judgment.

Further, there are as many or more verses that discuss His judgment and wrath as there are for His love and mercy.

God is holy, and anything that violates holiness is sin and carries a death penalty. God demonstrated His love for us by coming to abide with us in the flesh, dying on the cross, rising from the tomb, and then coming to abide in the hearts of those who are willing to hear His Words gladly.

Jay, what are those conditions? Can you list them?