Christs Two natures are what?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We answered you. Robert, consider this a warning. Stop spamming this forum with your anti Oneness posts. If you want to ask a sincere question and discuss it, fine. But what you are doing is posting anti Oneness polemics and then ignoring our responses to obfuscate things and attack strawman arguments

The two natures are Deity and Humanity. They are natures, not persons. I refer to each as Deity and Humanity. That was my answer. That was Chans answer and you ignoring our answers is not going to solicit a new one from us

Chan and youself have ignored my question, which was who is the father and who is the Son, almost all Oneness folk I know deny the deity of the Son (denyiong his divine attributes) by claiming that the Father is Jesus' deity and that the Son is Jesus' humanity.

[mfblume]

Deity and humanity are natures that belong to Jesus. Natures are not someone you can name. A dog has a canine nature, but that nature is not named as such. Rover HAS a nature but NOT IS a nature. Nature is ESSENTIAL QUALITY. And nobody IS an essential quality so as to demand we name the nature by someone's name.

Since there are many dogs in the world, and each one has a canine nature, you cannot say that a canine nature is a specific dog. That is the same mistake as saying deity is Jesus, rather than correctly saying Jesus HAS deity. Although there is only ONE who has a divine nature, the idea still plays through in saying Jesus is not deity but HAS deity. Deity is what makes Him God. But deity is not God, nor is it Father or Son.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Chan and youself have ignored my question, which was who is the father and who is the Son, almost all Oneness folk I know deny the deity of the Son (denyiong his divine attributes) by claiming that the Father is Jesus' deity and that the Son is Jesus' humanity.

oh my gosh...that was NOT your question. Your question is "Christs two natures are what?" and we told you what.

Then you asked us to name then and we told you the two natures are called Deity and Humanity.

You have been answered. Now stop playing that game you always play where you change questions and say we did not answer or just ignore our answers

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

Chan and youself have ignored my question, which was who is the father and who is the Son, almost all Oneness folk I know deny the deity of the Son (denyiong his divine attributes) by claiming that the Father is Jesus' deity and that the Son is Jesus' humanity.

The Father is not Jesus' deity and the Son is not Jesus' humanity. That is a completely incorrect manner of thought altogether. Your question makes no sense, since it is implying a thought that is incorrect and cannot be considered due to its inherent error. You are trying to say NATURES are persons. They are not. A Nature is that which a being possesses which makes it whatever being it is. A dog has the nature of a dog, and God has the nature of God. There is only One who has the nature of God, and that is God. But you cannot say the nature is God. It is only descriptive of what God is.

The Son is the One who HAS a human nature and divine nature, both. The SON is both divine and human. The Son is the person of Jesus manifest in flesh with both divine and human nagtures. The Father is Jesus as well, but not in consideration of His manifestation in flesh. The Father is not Jesus' divinity, but rather the Father HAS divinity alone as a nature. The entire thought that a NATURE is someone is incorrect. Natures are not a WHO but are what beings HAVE.

God, who is Jesus, existed before He was manifested as Son. He existed as Father and as everything else that is divine. The same person of Jesus manifested in flesh and that manifestation is both divine and human. The Son is GOD according to Hebrews 1:8.

An apple's nature includes the fact that it is red. Is RED an apple? Of course not. Neither is the Father Jesus' "deity".

To answer the original question, Christ's two natures are two distinct qualities He possesses which makes Him human only since His incarnation, and deity for eternity past and future.

To answer WHO is the Father and WHO is the Son, we say JESUS. We do not say any thought of "natures". A nature is not a "who". Jesus is a "Who."

Originally Posted by mfblume

Deity is what makes Him God. But deity is not God, nor is it Father or Son.

What do you mean by this? Please clarify, thanks MF

Originally Posted by Praxeas

oh my gosh...that was NOT your question. Your question is "Christs two natures are what?" and we told you what.

Then you asked us to name then and we told you the two natures are called Deity and Humanity.

You have been answered. Now stop playing that game you always play where you change questions and say we did not answer or just ignore our answers

But what are they called? is the Deity the Father and the Humanity the Son, or is Jesus Christ not the Father and the Son at all? If jesus Christ is the father and he is also the Son, in what sense is christ father and Son, hey I'd really like to know your opinion. Almost all Oneness folk whom I;'ve ever met have said that the Father is Jesus' deity and the Son is Jesus' humanity, so therefore in Oneness the Son isn't God, but is a man in whom God then indwells, this is known a the almighty God IN Christ.

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Son is the One who HAS a human nature and divine nature, both. The SON is both divine and human.

OK so if the Son is divine and as God is eternal, as that's one of his divine attributes, creatorship is another (Isaiah 44:24), then that would make the Son acording to you both an eternal Son (a Son who has existed as the Son eternally) and also the creator. You can't have it both ways, if you deny that the Son is eternal and creator, then like the JWs and Unitarians your actually claiming that the Son isn't YHWH GOD, but is a part of the creation by YHWH.

thanks MF

Originally Posted by mfblume

God, who is Jesus, existed before He was manifested as Son. He existed as Father and as everything else that is divine.

So really to you only the Father possesses divine attributes, the Son isn't YHWH God himself, but is a mer projection or manifestation of YHWH God who is the Father. Look Mr Blume, what your really saying is that the Son according to Oneness folk like you isn't eternal, creator, omnipresent, omnipotent or immutible as the Son, as the Son doesn't possess any of these divine attributes.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Father is not Jesus' deity and the Son is not Jesus' humanity. That is a completely incorrect manner of thought altogether. Your question makes no sense, since it is implying a thought that is incorrect and cannot be considered due to its inherent error. You are trying to say NATURES are persons. They are not. A Nature is that which a being possesses which makes it whatever being it is. A dog has the nature of a dog, and God has the nature of God. There is only One who has the nature of God, and that is God. But you cannot say the nature is God. It is only descriptive of what God is.

The Son is the One who HAS a human nature and divine nature, both. The SON is both divine and human. The Son is the person of Jesus manifest in flesh with both divine and human nagtures. The Father is Jesus as well, but not in consideration of His manifestation in flesh. The Father is not Jesus' divinity, but rather the Father HAS divinity alone as a nature. The entire thought that a NATURE is someone is incorrect. Natures are not a WHO but are what beings HAVE.

God, who is Jesus, existed before He was manifested as Son. He existed as Father and as everything else that is divine. The same person of Jesus manifested in flesh and that manifestation is both divine and human. The Son is GOD according to Hebrews 1:8.

An apple's nature includes the fact that it is red. Is RED an apple? Of course not. Neither is the Father Jesus' "deity".

To answer the original question, Christ's two natures are two distinct qualities He possesses which makes Him human only since His incarnation, and deity for eternity past and future.

To answer WHO is the Father and WHO is the Son, we say JESUS. We do not say any thought of "natures". A nature is not a "who". Jesus is a "Who."

Excellent post! And, as you are seeing, IB is simply an objector. His request for "clarification" is for purposes of argument. If he can't understand what you posted above (and in your previous post), God help him! But, we know, that's the only One who can anyway, right?

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

This post is about Oneness, not Trinitarian creeds which I don't fully adhere to anyway as I reject the doctrine of eternal generation. Do you or do you not claim that the Father = deity of jesus and Son = humanity of Jesus.

No, I don not claim that Father = deity of Jesus and Son = humanity of Jesus. Again, I adhere to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed I quoted earlier. I don't care whether you adhere to trinitarian creeds or not: you seem to be accusing me of being oneness when I'm not. As for what oneness folks believe, you'll find that there are differing beliefs among oneness folks just as there are often differing beliefs among trinitarians.