A Wrecked Church!

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Good grief.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Such a sad situation for such a wonderful church in it's time. To help some understand years ago it was very hard for struggling churches to borrow money so many preachers would borrow the money to do whatever but generally whenever the church would grow and get on it's feet they would make it more business like. However some men of that era which motives and hearts were pure as gold just didn't keep up to date and then a horrid situation like this happens. Every church needs trustees to keep the properties in trust. I am very sadden over this. We had no fellowship for years since they moved in a more liberal circle but I do feel for the saints who have been faithful and given their lives to this church. Outside of going to law I don't know what can be done and that may even be futile?

SE,

Could you please elaborate a bit on what you are saying here? You see, in the situation we were in, there were things that did not look good at all. When we took the church there were no records and a number of things that had been done that we were taught strictly against. We were taught to do everything by the law and by the books.

We took the issue to the district board. They swept everything under the rug which made our situation HORRIBLE. They left us to rot and sort everything out which made things so, so much worse. We were WILLING to listen to them and do what they wanted but they gave us NO direction. We were left to flounder. This confused the whole church and because my husband put everything in order according to law, they accused us of changing everything and even of stealing money. The district did NOTHING, even when my husband showed up with a packet of information that we had worked three hours to compile, he did not even look at it.

For the first time, after reading your post about things being different in that era and how things were done, it occurred to me that MAYBE the district assumed everyone just went with the flow on these things as they tried (or DIDN'T, in this case, try to determine whether there was any wrongdoing.....it was assumed automatically by the board that there was not any wrongdoing based ONLY on the reputation of the previous pastor when we had records to the contrary). This helps me to MAYBE, JUST MAYBE understand a little bit the actions of the board who should have talked to us as we were so willing to listen and heed their direction.

People in the church sued my husband and the church when the previous pastor told them they "had no choice" but to sue us because we were supposedly destroying the church. After dragging us through two lawsuits and destroying our lives, they finally dropped it because they had absolutely no evidence that we had done anything wrong whatsoever.

Take heed anyone who throws accusations of any kind around, it gets scary. Take heed before you say the words lawsuit.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by ILG

SE,

Could you please elaborate a bit on what you are saying here? You see, in the situation we were in, there were things that did not look good at all. When we took the church there were no records and a number of things that had been done that we were taught strictly against. We were taught to do everything by the law and by the books.

We took the issue to the district board. They swept everything under the rug which made our situation HORRIBLE. They left us to rot and sort everything out which made things so, so much worse. We were WILLING to listen to them and do what they wanted but they gave us NO direction. We were left to flounder. This confused the whole church and because my husband put everything in order according to law, they accused us of changing everything and even of stealing money. The district did NOTHING, even when my husband showed up with a packet of information that we had worked three hours to compile, he did not even look at it.

For the first time, after reading your post about things being different in that era and how things were done, it occurred to me that MAYBE the district assumed everyone just went with the flow on these things as they tried (or DIDN'T, in this case, try to determine whether there was any wrongdoing.....it was assumed automatically by the board that there was not any wrongdoing based ONLY on the reputation of the previous pastor when we had records to the contrary). This helps me to MAYBE, JUST MAYBE understand a little bit the actions of the board who should have talked to us as we were so willing to listen and heed their direction.

People in the church sued my husband and the church when the previous pastor told them they "had no choice" but to sue us because we were supposedly destroying the church. After dragging us through two lawsuits and destroying our lives, they finally dropped it because they had absolutely no evidence that we had done anything wrong whatsoever.

Take heed anyone who throws accusations of any kind around, it gets scary. Take heed before you say the words lawsuit.

ILG, from what I am reading here, it sounds like the District Board dropped the ball. If they did not even look at the compilation your husband did, then they can (dis)honestly say that they have not seen anything...right?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

ILG, from what I am reading here, it sounds like the District Board dropped the ball. If they did not even look at the compilation your husband did, then they can (dis)honestly say that they have not seen anything...right?

It was really the district superintendent and the presbyter. The board never even had a chance to see anything. The district superintendent kept the board from seeing the compilation that my husband took off of work and drove three hours to show them. He told my husband outside the door that "we aren't going to look at that today".

At a later meeting the district superintendent and presbyter took a cursory glance at it before ripping into my husband about some decisions he made. Decisions which were based on decisions the district superintendent had made and didn't follow through on.

At any rate, I would really like to hear from Steve Epley, who would know more about how things were done in the older days, how these things were done. It doesn't excuse what the district superintendent and presbyster did but it helps me understand more why they would not just jump into the situation like we thought they would. Even so, we expected they may not jump in but we at least expected some sort of explanation or discussion on what they might do. At the time, it looked to me like a cover up but that hopefully was not their intent. Of course, I will probably never know.

[Cindy]

ILG, do you think outside help should have been brought in? Like an accountant to go over the books?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Cindy

ILG, do you think outside help should have been brought in? Like an accountant to go over the books?

Hmm...I guess at the time, we expected the district board would have been the appropriate people to look things over so we did not call in an accountant. Maybe that would have been a good idea.

What it ended up being was lawyers looking it over.

[ILG]

When I hear stories like this "wrecked church", I just have no idea what to think either pro or con.

[AreYouReady?]

I know what to think. I know that I do not ever want to be caught in church split situations like this ever again. Been there and done that before.

Most church splits are over mammon and power.

[The Matt]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

Some of you may be familiar with this situation involving a pastor who recently passed away. He was a strong leader and didn't have a board. All decisions and finances were handled by him and his family. His daughter handled the finances of the church, some of which were invested to buy rental homes for extra income.

The pastor didn't have a successor in place as he held all power until he passed, even though he could hardly speak or walk in his final months. When he became incapacitated, his daughter held full power.

Well...a church vote was held for the daughter's choice to be pastor, and he was voted down. Last week she sent certified letters to all the families that weren't in agreement with her (a majority), and told them they were no longer welcome and were no longer considered members of the church. She essentially kicked them out of the church!

IMO, her strategy is to have another vote with the remaining families that voted with her! How sad to manipulate a good group of people to get what you want!

Anyway, last week she decided to give herself a $200 a week raise as church manager. She didn't need to ask for permission as she has absolute power to do as she pleases.

I hate to see what was once a great influential Apostolic church decline to this type of behavior and power struggle! A truly sad story of how absolute power can absolutely corrupt! This happens even in an Acts 2:38, Oneness, strict standards type church.

The church is no longer tied to any Apostolic organization, so there in nobody to help them get thru this problem. Other pastors that were close friends to the church are afraid to get in the middle of this church fight!

This is exactly why a church needs to have a system where the church goers play a part in it, with a system of checks and balances. The only thing you can do about that situation is pray and fast about it. God can intervene in hopeless situations. I will pray that God puts His perfect will on that church, and it's people.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by The Matt

This is exactly why a church needs to have a system where the church goers play a part in it, with a system of checks and balances. The only thing you can do about that situation is pray and fast about it. God can intervene in hopeless situations. I will pray that God puts His perfect will on that church, and it's people.

In the old days (when I was young) this concept was considered "the board running the church" and looked down on.

Apparently to counter the possibility of a carnal board trying to control a pastor preachers decided the solution was a one man show with a pastor answering to no one. In many instances churches have had token boards made up of men who are there to rubber stamp whatever decisions the pastor makes. No real dissent allowed.

Thankfully I think more and more churches realize there has to be checks and balances when it comes to finances and other areas so they do have pastors answerable to godly men when it comes to that. It protects both the pastor and the church.