Fiscal Cliff

[Ferd]

On the subject of Obama care, what everyone needs to understand here is that Obamacare was never intended to be a solution. Mr Obama clearly stated the objective before he became president when he said getting to a single payer system would have to be done a step at a time and would take 15 years.

What Obamacare was meant to do is to break the system so that the people would demand a fix.... a fix that could only go in one direction.

Obama care is causing large companies to lay off people. to cut thier full time workforce and have larger numbers of part time people, and in some cases like John Deere and my company (one of the Fourtune 10) to state that eliminating health benifits and just paying the penalty would save them billions per year.

The goal of Obamacare is to drive more and more people into the government exchanges to the point that it becomes unprofitable for insurance companies to offer private insurance. at that point we get a single payer system and 100% of the medical industry becomes federalized.... that would be about 1/6th of the economy.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Light

The bold above is not correct. Hospitals are only required to treat emergencies.
They are not required by law to treat illness.

e·mer·gen·cy (-mûrjn-s)

1. A serious situation or occurrence that happens unexpectedly and demands immediate action.
2. A condition of urgent need for action or assistance:

Sorry. I worked in hospitals for 25 years and I've not seen people turned away when they were sick. I've seen many people's charts stamped "NO INSURANCE" admitted for treatment.

You cannot tell me any different.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Ferd

On the subject of Obama care, what everyone needs to understand here is that Obamacare was never intended to be a solution. Mr Obama clearly stated the objective before he became president when he said getting to a single payer system would have to be done a step at a time and would take 15 years.

What Obamacare was meant to do is to break the system so that the people would demand a fix.... a fix that could only go in one direction.

Obama care is causing large companies to lay off people. to cut thier full time workforce and have larger numbers of part time people, and in some cases like John Deere and my company (one of the Fourtune 10) to state that eliminating health benifits and just paying the penalty would save them billions per year.

The goal of Obamacare is to drive more and more people into the government exchanges to the point that it becomes unprofitable for insurance companies to offer private insurance. at that point we get a single payer system and 100% of the medical industry becomes federalized.... that would be about 1/6th of the economy.

This makes a lot of sense. Even those without insurance have been saying to me lately that at some point in time, there will eventually be a single payer insurance.

I think that is why healthcare costs have been growing exponentially since Hillary tried to get it passed when Bill was in office.

I expect that by the that time 15 years have come and gone, I will be in my 70s and will be allowed to die.
Healthcare will most likely end up to be business decisions rather than saving old lives. Much like the person who has a 20 year old automobile that they kept in immaculate condition all these years. Then someone comes along and rear ends them to the point that the insurance company totals it out for next to nothing, hands you a check a doesn't care that you are out the automobile you took care of for so long.

It's not always a bad thing to be allowed to die. I've seen the elderly languish in hospitals and nursing homes being kept alive by tubes and artificial means knowing that they will never live a normal life or get off the artificial support.

But it would be a bad thing if the elderly only needs some medications or procedure to allow them to enjoy their home and family and was refused by some insurance company's business decision.

Either way, I would want to make sure my life was right with God and serving Him because we don't know when we will be called to go home to be with Him.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by ILG

Hospitals are only paid about .18 on the dollar for every medicaid patient they see....50 on the dollar for medicare.

I've seen procedures that normally cost hundreds of dollars get reimbursed for only $20-$50 dollars....and that was 12 years ago. There is no telling how much more Medicare has been cut.

[Light]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Sorry. I worked in hospitals for 25 years and I've not seen people turned away when they were sick. I've seen many people's charts stamped "NO INSURANCE" admitted for treatment.

You cannot tell me any different.

So your saying the hospital will take me in and treat me for cancer for 5 or 6 years until the cancer finally kills me? You've seen hospitals do this?

Please tell me which hospital does this and I will stop paying $200.00a month for my medicare ins. I could really use the $200 somewhere else.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Light

So your saying the hospital will take me in and treat me for cancer for 5 or 6 years until the cancer finally kills me? You've seen hospitals do this?

Please tell me which hospital does this and I will stop paying $200.00a month for my medicare ins. I could really use the $200 somewhere else.

lol, no. Obamacare will eventually label you as "no longer productive to society" and allow you to die.

They will give you something for the pain though...probably more than necessary.

Lets get real Light. If you truly believe that any conservative policy will allow you to go untreated then you have drank the liberal kool-aid.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Ferd

On the subject of Obama care, what everyone needs to understand here is that Obamacare was never intended to be a solution. Mr Obama clearly stated the objective before he became president when he said getting to a single payer system would have to be done a step at a time and would take 15 years.

What Obamacare was meant to do is to break the system so that the people would demand a fix.... a fix that could only go in one direction.

Obama care is causing large companies to lay off people. to cut thier full time workforce and have larger numbers of part time people, and in some cases like John Deere and my company (one of the Fourtune 10) to state that eliminating health benifits and just paying the penalty would save them billions per year.

The goal of Obamacare is to drive more and more people into the government exchanges to the point that it becomes unprofitable for insurance companies to offer private insurance. at that point we get a single payer system and 100% of the medical industry becomes federalized.... that would be about 1/6th of the economy.

Ferd... here's my issue with health care. Right now... a person without insurance or any way to pay can rush to the ER for immediate treatment for injuries and various illnesses. They get billed. They don't pay that bill. And the cost shifting begins (study health care cost shifting). Providers then increase health care costs to make up for the losses incured by those who don't pay, or are slow pay. That causes insurers to increase premiums to cover increased costs. The uninsured people rushing to the ER don't pay a dime AND OUR HEALTH INSURANCE COSTS INCREASE EVERY YEAR AS THE NUMBER OF UNINSURED INCREASE.

Imagine if a car lot was run this way. Someone without the money for a car shows up and they are given a car and billed for it. They dont pay their bill. What will happen to the cost of cars in that car lot Ferd??? They will increase to make up for the loss incured by giving away so many cars. It would eventually go out of business because the cost of cars would increase to the point that nobody would buy one. This is why a car lot will not give you a car unless you can pay for it or a third party has lent you the money to buy it.

So the "Free Market" model really DOESN'T bode well with health care. Because ordinarily a person who can't pay is denied service. Try going to a restaurant and ordering food, informing them that you can't pay, and you'll see what I mean. You'll be denied food. In health care... we don't do that. We treat everyone in the ERs even if they can't pay.

Also... if you pass out on the sidewalk tomorrow... you'll be rushed by ambulance to... the emergency room. Even if your conservative little soul doesn't have insurance and would rather not go to the ER. Car accident... those involved are automatically rushed to a hospital and treated for injuries... even if unconscious and uninsured.

Imagine that a car lot rushed out and gave a car to stranded people, even if they couldn't pay. LOL!!! It wouldn't be sustainable. Stranded people would have to pay for a rental... or ... find another way... like walking or hitchiking.

So the "Free Market" model for health care doesn't really work. It can only work if we DENY services to those unable to pay up front or don't have insurance. Period. Now, that would be truly "Free Market" health care. But MOST wouldn't go for denying treatment unless consented to or able to pay. So we're stuck with a system available to EVERYONE, even if they pay NOTHING for it. Therefore it makes sense to... MAKE EVERYONE PAY INTO THE SYSTEM (or at least as many as possible).

So... there ya have it. Deny treatment to those who can't pay (truly free market service)... or go to a single payer system wherein a service available to all is paid for by the *vast majority*.

I say "vast majority" because the homeless and utterly destitute aren't going to be able to pay into the system. That's a no brainer.

[Light]

Originally Posted by scotty

lol, no. Obamacare will eventually label you as "no longer productive to society" and allow you to die.

They will give you something for the pain though...probably more than necessary.

Lets get real Light. If you truly believe that any conservative policy will allow you to go untreated then you have drank the liberal kool-aid.

MB Anderson hospital in Houston refused to treat a person we know who had medical ins. He was told buy more Ins. Your coverage cap is to low.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Light

MB Anderson hospital in Houston refused to treat a person we know who had medical ins. He was told buy more Ins. Your coverage cap is to low.

Exactly, do you believe bammercare is going to be any different?? Do you believe that those on the program will get better or equal healthcare to those who can afford to buy their own insurance??

[NotforSale]

IDontCare about Obamacare!

The last thing we need in America is for the Government to pay for something else! Good night, can't people see that the cronies in Washington can't even balance their "Checkbook"???

I am 52 years old, and I've been Self Employed almost my entire life. If the money isn't coming in, STOP SPENDING, and tell those who are waiting for Public Assistance to go to Church! We will tell them, “You need to EARN your keep in life if you want to survive! A man that doesn’t want to work, go ahead and STARVE!"

Our Nation is on the verge of the greatest Moral and Financial collapse this World has EVER seen! We are also creating a Nation of lazy, fat Americans who sit around waiting for an Unemployment Check! Many can't FIND work because they CAN'T work and perform the physical requirements necessary TO work!

People complain, moan and groan, and try to tell me there are NO JOBS! I simply tell them, "You're just not willing to WORK!” They usually find work after I say this.