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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. - Benjamin Franklin
-Commit2013-
I know someone who went through counseling for porn addiction. The counselor told him to make a list of everything that drew his eye going to and from work, i.e. billboards, etc. His purpose was to enlist him on helping to end this travesty in our society.
As much as we want to talk about a woman's involvement in a man's lust (which has some degree of merit), what about men who pass things to their friends via computer and cell phone?
I say that men are also at fault for encouraging and sometimes having the mindset that it's just boy stuff and no big deal. They could be ruining another man's life (a wife's life as well) on his struggle with porn. Men need to take some responsibility here, IMO.
I think both genders are to blame.
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Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
I certainly agree. Just rounding out the discussion by not leaving anything out. I've seen a lot of "locker room" or "horseplay" stuff where men don't think it's a big deal or damaging to another. It is a big deal. Not all men will admit their porn addiction and other men need to stop feeding it.
I certainly agree. Just rounding out the discussion by not leaving anything out. I've seen a lot of "locker room" or "horseplay" stuff where men don't think it's a big deal or damaging to another. It is a big deal. Not all men will admit their porn addiction and other men need to stop feeding it.
Unfortunately, there are more than a few who think that viewing porn is a normal part of male sexuality. It's all part of the normal "biological sexual attraction" to the female form.
Another problem is that it doesn't just affect men; it affects their future (or present) wife--because she will either suffer from neglect while he continues his bad habits, she will suffer unrealistic expectations of her personal appearance or performance, or both. (and much more) There's a lot to be said for saving not only your bodies but also your mind for your wife only and exploring sexuality within the very generous bounds of the marriage bed. God's plan is obviously going to be the most fulfilling--and guilt-free. This is sort of a tangent, though.
Are women culpable when men lust after them? I say they can be, but in my opinion, only if they are deliberately inciting lust. There are women who are clueless about their effect on men, or those who think it shouldn't matter; I'm not sure that they are responsible in their ignorance. Then there are those who are very much aware and do whatever they can to get male attention. The woman who purposely sets out to seduce or be generally seductive--I believe she is acting immorally and will be accountable to God for it. (Obviously I am not speaking about seducing one's husband. ) Per my post earlier in the thread, I believe that falls into the category of lasciviousness.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Unfortunately, there are more than a few who think that viewing porn is a normal part of male sexuality. It's all part of the normal "biological sexual attraction" to the female form.
Another problem is that it doesn't just affect men; it affects their future (or present) wife--because she will either suffer from neglect while he continues his bad habits, she will suffer unrealistic expectations of her personal appearance or performance, or both. (and much more) There's a lot to be said for saving not only your bodies but also your mind for your wife only and exploring sexuality within the very generous bounds of the marriage bed. God's plan is obviously going to be the most fulfilling--and guilt-free. This is sort of a tangent, though.
Are women culpable when men lust after them? I say they can be, but in my opinion, only if they are deliberately inciting lust. There are women who are clueless about their effect on men, or those who think it shouldn't matter; I'm not sure that they are responsible in their ignorance. Then there are those who are very much aware and do whatever they can to get male attention. The woman who purposely sets out to seduce or be generally seductive--I believe she is acting immorally and will be accountable to God for it. (Obviously I am not speaking about seducing one's husband. ) Per my post earlier in the thread, I believe that falls into the category of lasciviousness.
I think the discussion can go into a broader paradigm bringing in the woman from a dysfunctional family. If the song, "Looking for Love in all the Wrong Places" wasn't written with that paradigm in mind, it certainly should have been. She isn't always aware that she is looking for male affirmation that she didn't receive growing up, setting herself up for a world of hurt.
I think the discussion can go into a broader paradigm bringing in the woman from a dysfunctional family. If the song, "Looking for Love in all the Wrong Places" wasn't written with that paradigm in mind, it certainly should have been. She isn't always aware that she is looking for male affirmation that she didn't receive growing up, setting herself up for a world of hurt.
That is why it would be immensely helpful if Christian men would take the tact of being respectful toward ALL women; not just the ones who appear to deserve respect. By respect, I mean: don't treat women as sexual objects, at the very least, and treat them as "mothers" and "sisters" at best. (I Timothy 5:2)
If there is an achilles heel of some of our traditional teachings on modesty, it is that it can condition men to view women who are immodest (using subjective modesty standards) as worthy of their disrespect. They sort the ladies from the rest by a cursory assessment of their appearance, and behave accordingly. That is a problem in the male psyche; not the female. It's particularly problematic when their filter is based on traditional Apostolic modes of dress, since there are plenty of ladylike ladies who wear secular clothing. Okay, maybe "plenty" is overstating it these days, but still... What I want for my son is for him to be a gentleman and Christian at all times--even to a prostitute who is actively "asking for it."
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Last edited by MissBrattified; 12-04-2012 at 05:16 PM.
That is why it would be immensely helpful if Christian men would take the tact of being respectful toward ALL women; not just the ones who appear to deserve respect. By respect, I mean: don't treat women as sexual objects, at the very least, and treat them as "mothers and sisters" at best.
Unfortunately, there are more than a few who think that viewing porn is a normal part of male sexuality. It's all part of the normal "biological sexual attraction" to the female form.
Have a current case in point. My husband is working out of town and the guys told him, last night, "Come on, we are going to a strip club. Your wife will never know."
Of course, he told them he wouldn't be going. But, they will be talking about it today!
I believe both parties are responsible to do their part. Women should dress modestly but a holy man would not look to lust upon a woman who was walking the streets naked, although he might be tempted. Women are not responsible for a man's actions but a responsible woman would not want a weak man to struggle over her dress.
I think the problem has been that men have been in the pulpit talking about women's dress for too long, rather than concentrating on their own issues with lust. Let the older women teach the younger women how to dress and if men are going to preach from the pulpit, let them preach against pornography and lust. I dunno. That seems right to me anyway.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
sorry meant to sum it up with a no.
What I want for my son is for him to be a gentleman and Christian at all times--even to a prostitute who is actively "asking for it."
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