Interesting Logic Question:

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's not the GOVERNMENT'S responsibility to make a person take responsibility for their moral decisions. People answer to God.

Actually yes it is. When people make a moral decision to kill another person it very much IS the role of government to make sure that they are held accountable for their crime against humanity.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Not fault... "responsibility". Being a man has it's responsibilities.

Having sex has it's responsibilities.

If a man spreads his seed he's ultimately responsible for that seed. If a woman takes a seed, she's responsible for that seed.

Stop trying to cop out. It takes two to tango, the "she" is JUST as responsible for laying down as the "he" is.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And again, we're back at the source of the problem. One cannot escape this situation without violating the sovereign rights of either the mother over her own body or the unborn child. This is the root problem. If GOVERNMENT sides with the unborn child, essentially the GOVERNMENT has to FORCE a woman to give birth against her will. That violates her sovereign rights over her own person. This would be no different from violating the sovereignty of her person and FORCE her to abort (as in China). It's the usage of GOVERNMENT FORCE.

However, if the GOVERNMENT chooses to REMOVE itself from the equation and allow the mother sovereign authority over her body and all contents in HER womb... the choice is entirely up to the woman in question. She may choose to give birth or abortion. From there, may she choose wisely, and may God have mercy on her soul. GOVERNMENT isn't FORCING anything and all moral responsibility rests on the individual woman.

Life and death decisions are made every day. I was invested with the authority to decide if life saving measures would be continued on my mother. I could have ask that they continue... and for all I know... she might have stablized and survived. However, I chose to let her go. I didn't want her to spend her last hours on earth being zapped and beat on should she perish.

As a soldier... we make life and death decisions every day.

There comes a point wherein the GOVERNMENT must back away and allow human beings to have due authority over various situations that are indeed life or death.

If you believe that a fetus is a human life every paragraph you just wrote is worthless.

The woman has the right over her own body. She has the right to abstain from sex, she has the right to maintain her virginity and innocence until she is married. She has the right to have enough self-respect and dignity not to give herself away to any man until she is physically, emotionally, and financially ready to handle the consequences that come with the decision to lay down and have sex. Every woman has the right, to act responsibly or irresponsibly and make a decision on whether or not to CONCEIVE a child. NO ONE man, woman, boy, or girl has the "right" to abort a human life once it is conceived. If the woman doesn't want to have a child she needs not conceive one. End of story. Once she does, she has no right to say, "I created this life on my own free will and now because I don't want to have it I'm going to murder it". If you don't want kids, keep your zipper closed. That's it, that's all.

[Cindy]

The reality is that the women's lib movement harmed women in some ways. It started out for equal pay for the same job. Then somewhere along the way it became about personal choices. Women deserve pleasurable sex with no consequences, just like men. If men can have sex with no responsibility, women can as well. Child support laws were rarely enforced back then. So, instead abortion became a birth control choice, I don't care how many people deny it, that is essentially what it boiled down to. Roe v Wade, started out as a lie. She first claimed she was raped, then it went on from there.
The solution is simple, if you don't want to have a child use birth control. Don't rely on your partner to make the right choice. Or a new thought, ABSTAIN from sex if you are not ready to get pregnant.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

If you believe that a fetus is a human life every paragraph you just wrote is worthless.

The woman has the right over her own body. She has the right to abstain from sex, she has the right to maintain her virginity and innocence until she is married. She has the right to have enough self-respect and dignity not to give herself away to any man until she is physically, emotionally, and financially ready to handle the consequences that come with the decision to lay down and have sex. Every woman has the right, to act responsibly or irresponsibly and make a decision on whether or not to CONCEIVE a child. NO ONE man, woman, boy, or girl has the "right" to abort a human life once it is conceived. If the woman doesn't want to have a child she needs not conceive one. End of story. Once she does, she has no right to say, "I created this life on my own free will and now because I don't want to have it I'm going to murder it". If you don't want kids, keep your zipper closed. That's it, that's all.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by cindy

the reality is that the women's lib movement harmed women in some ways. It started out for equal pay for the same job. Then somewhere along the way it became about personal choices. Women deserve pleasurable sex with no consequences, just like men. If men can have sex with no responsibility, women can as well. Child support laws were rarely enforced back then. So, instead abortion became a birth control choice, i don't care how many people deny it, that is essentially what it boiled down to. Roe v wade, started out as a lie. She first claimed she was raped, then it went on from there.
The solution is simple, if you don't want to have a child use birth control. Don't rely on your partner to make the right choice. Or a new thought, abstain from sex if you are not ready to get pregnant.

preach !!!!!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Sometimes, yes... and that's sad.

Sometimes it's more complicated than that. Sometimes the choice to abort is a very painful and dark night of the soul. I know a couple, a deeply devout Christian couple, who were pregnant. There was a problem and as it turned out the child was not developing properly. Essentially the front part of the brain wasn't developing and there was fluid building in the head of the child. The doctor advised them that they had options. They could give birth to the child. It would live anywhere between 3 days to 3 months. If a "miracle happened" and the child did live beyond that... it would be SEVERELY MRDD. However, due to some other circumstances she'd most likely be rendered barren if she carried to term. Her other option was to abort the pregnancy. They went home and wept. They prayed about it and decided to terminate the pregnancy.

Now, we might not agree with their decision. However, I'm believe that this was their choice to make and not mine... not yours... and not some GOVERNMENT bureaucrat's.

I was in the Army for 8 years. Also, when my mother had her massive heart attack they wanted to know if I wanted them to continue life saving measures. I had to decide to let her go. People make difficult and painful life and death decisions every day. And the GOVERNMENT getting involved isn't going to make things better.

I think the bottom line is.....is that life yours to choose to take? To my way of thinking, it's not. So, it's not a choice.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

If you believe that a fetus is a human life every paragraph you just wrote is worthless.

The woman has the right over her own body. She has the right to abstain from sex, she has the right to maintain her virginity and innocence until she is married. She has the right to have enough self-respect and dignity not to give herself away to any man until she is physically, emotionally, and financially ready to handle the consequences that come with the decision to lay down and have sex. Every woman has the right, to act responsibly or irresponsibly and make a decision on whether or not to CONCEIVE a child. NO ONE man, woman, boy, or girl has the "right" to abort a human life once it is conceived. If the woman doesn't want to have a child she needs not conceive one. End of story. Once she does, she has no right to say, "I created this life on my own free will and now because I don't want to have it I'm going to murder it". If you don't want kids, keep your zipper closed. That's it, that's all.

Very good. End of story, really.