Something interesting about gays.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I don't agree that this is a universal staement.
There are homosexuals who are not narcissistic, but are hurting, confused.

Narcissism means love of self; Coonskinner was pulling that from the idea that a homosexual man is attracted to his own physical image rather than the opposite sex. (likewise with a lesbian)

The fact that sin leaves people hurt and confused is par for the sinful course; that doesn't mean the initial choices aren't any less selfish or self-serving. Sin is only pleasurable temporarily; then it becomes painful and destructive. In the beginning, it can be pleasurable--which is why human beings choose sin over and over and have since the beginning of time.

Of course sin leaves people hurting and confused. That's one of the reasons I so strongly object to any religious teaching that allows people to remain in sin and still be saved--because sin is universally destructive--even if you are told that God is okay with it and you feel some sort of acceptance in your religious circle. The sin itself will still eat away at your spirit, mind and body, and you will still find yourself hurt and confused in the end. Shame on any minister who seeks to allow people to remain in their sins and feel good about themselves spiritually. That man is seeking to allow people to remain in destruction instead of being an overcomer.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by houston

Omagawd! It's like people automatically drop their I.Q. to that of a houseplant when this topic is being discussed.

Boy attracted to girl is not a sin. When he bags her outside of marriage, that is the sin.

No one chooses who they're attracted to.

okay, whatever I did to you I apologize. you seem to be hateful because I disagree with you, I never meant to hurt you. I LOVE YOU houston. God bless you. bye.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Narcissism means love of self; Coonskinner was pulling that from the idea that a homosexual man is attracted to his own physical image rather than the opposite sex. (likewise with a lesbian)

The fact that sin leaves people hurt and confused is par for the sinful course; that doesn't mean the initial choices aren't any less selfish or self-serving. Sin is only pleasurable temporarily; then it becomes painful and destructive. In the beginning, it can be pleasurable--which is why human beings choose sin over and over and have since the beginning of time.

Of course sin leaves people hurting and confused. That's one of the reasons I so strongly object to any religious teaching that allows people to remain in sin and still be saved--because sin is universally destructive--even if you are told that God is okay with it and you feel some sort of acceptance in your religious circle. The sin itself will still eat away at your spirit, mind and body, and you will still find yourself hurt and confused in the end. Shame on any minister who seeks to allow people to remain in their sins and feel good about themselves spiritually. That man is seeking to allow people to remain in destruction instead of being an overcomer.

This makes no sense to me......what about men who are attracted to masculine women, and women who are attracted to effeminate men? Are they homosexual?

Homesxuality is no more narcissism than men who are attracted to women who look like them, and vice versa!

What about men who are attracted to women who are just like their mothers? Are they guilty of incest?

Come on......

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Narcissism means love of self; Coonskinner was pulling that from the idea that a homosexual man is attracted to his own physical image rather than the opposite sex. (likewise with a lesbian)

The fact that sin leaves people hurt and confused is par for the sinful course; that doesn't mean the initial choices aren't any less selfish or self-serving. Sin is only pleasurable temporarily; then it becomes painful and destructive. In the beginning, it can be pleasurable--which is why human beings choose sin over and over and have since the beginning of time.

Of course sin leaves people hurting and confused. That's one of the reasons I so strongly object to any religious teaching that allows people to remain in sin and still be saved--because sin is universally destructive--even if you are told that God is okay with it and you feel some sort of acceptance in your religious circle. The sin itself will still eat away at your spirit, mind and body, and you will still find yourself hurt and confused in the end. Shame on any minister who seeks to allow people to remain in their sins and feel good about themselves spiritually. That man is seeking to allow people to remain in destruction instead of being an overcomer.

Amen.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by StillStanding

I believe babies are born asexual. Boy babies aren't attracted to girl babies or other boy babies. They are attracted to their mother, most likely!

I do believe every human has a preposition to attraction one way or the other. It has not been scientifically proven that there is anything that influences this attraction. It is what it is. It is how God made us!

I don't believe one's natural attraction is a sin. It is acting out sexual activity outside of marriage where sin comes in. The adulterer or fornicator is no better than a practicing gay person. All is sin! They are all following the lust of the flesh instead of following godliness.

I know that some (maybe most!) don't agree with me, but that's OK! I know of too many man who were attracted to other men that have thought of committing suicide because they WANT to be heterosexual and be "normal". After crying and begging God to change them, they were unable to change. I had a friend ask me, " Do you really think I would CHOOSE to be like this, to suffer the ridicule of family and friends, to be the subject of gossip and cruel jokes, to be called horrible names?"

I use to think like most on this thread think on this issue. My heart was changed to more compassionate when a close friend revealed his issue to me. I KNOW this man loves God, and would love nothing else but to be "normal" so he would fit in.

In case you're wondering, NO, I'm not gay! I'm happily married with three children and six grandchildren!

A voice of reason, and truth. We are all born into sin, it is only the grace of God that anyone of us is given the gift of belief. Some never are able to receive this gift in this life, and they struggle all their days.

Thankful, we are not saved by our belief, rather by the blood of Christ, and we eventually will all believe, "...each in our own order..."

The harvest of the earth comes in ages, the first fruits are those that are given the gift of belief in this life, those that deny themselves and overcome, "...lose their life... and find LIFE..." Next is the harvest from the refiners fire, in the lake of fire, which burns up all dross and chaff, from which the gold and wheat are harvested. This is when the last enemy is destroyed, death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire.

Then the end and final harvest, the grapes of wrath, the grapes are crushed under His feet, and the precious fruit of the vine is finally harvested.

You see God has a plan and is working His plan, men have perverted His character, but he is not detoured!!! "...I will do all that I have purposed..."

We must rightly divide the "...Word of Truth....", and we must understand the types and shadows, presented though out the Old and New Testaments.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Everyone is born with the propensity for sin; everyone is born with innate weaknesses and even the inclination for certain sins.

Being born *into* sin doesn't validate later sinful choices. Human beings are born with all sorts of sinful weakness; having to fight those weaknesses in accordance with God's laws is part of the human struggle.

It doesn't matter if you ascribe to the "I was born with it" or "I chose it later" theory; homosexuality is still a sin.

To the point of the original post, a previous poster (Coonskinner) said one of the most insightful things, IMO. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said that homosexuality is the ultimate worship of self--because instead of being attracted to one's opposite, complimentary gender, homosexuals are attracted to their own image. Homosexuality is rooted in narcissism.

I'm not sure if I'd go that far. My name is Chris... and my girlfriend's name is Christina. Likeness in a mate doesn't demand narcissism. I think it's deeper than narcissism. I think it's a problem rooted deep in one's very nature.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

This makes no sense to me......what about men who are attracted to masculine women, and women who are attracted to effeminate men? Are they homosexual?

What does that have to do with being attracted to the same gender? A body type isn't anywhere close to being a "gender." A man is a man, whether he is skinny or buff; a woman is a woman whether she's soft everywhere or has muscles.

Homesxuality is no more narcissism than men who are attracted to women who look like them, and vice versa!

I don't know. Narcissism is love of self; I think it makes sense, or at least interjects an interesting line of thought. Sin is narcissistic in general, though. (self-serving) It's interesting in the sense that it examines the psychosis behind homosexuality, rather than simply the actions. We aren't animals, you know; our behavior isn't simply instinctive. We have reasoning power, logic and the ability to choose. How a person chooses reveals more than just their "animal attractions."

What about men who are attracted to women who are just like their mothers? Are they guilty of incest?

They're only guilty of incest if they actually have sex with their mothers, I suppose. I don't think I get your point on this one.....

[MissBrattified]

For the sake of discussion, the dictionary definition of narcissism:

1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity. Synonyms: self-centeredness, smugness, egocentrism.
2.
Psychoanalysis . erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

[Aquila]

Why do we always want to focus on everything but the issue? We blame demon possession, we blame narcissism, we blame abuse, we blame environment, we blame conditioning.

Why not just accept that these individuals have a fallen nature that responds to the same gender over the opposite gender? Then we can actually work with them about repentance, confession, faith, and sanctification with relation to the unique temptations they might face.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

What does that have to do with being attracted to the same gender? A body type isn't anywhere close to being a "gender." A man is a man, whether he is skinny or buff; a woman is a woman whether she's soft everywhere or has muscles.



I don't know. Narcissism is love of self; I think it makes sense, or at least interjects an interesting line of thought. Sin is narcissistic in general, though. (self-serving) It's interesting in the sense that it examines the psychosis behind homosexuality, rather than simply the actions. We aren't animals, you know; our behavior isn't simply instinctive. We have reasoning power, logic and the ability to choose. How a person chooses reveals more than just their "animal attractions."



They're only guilty of incest if they actually have sex with their mothers, I suppose. I don't think I get your point on this one.....

My point is that if someone is attracted to someone else because they resemble themselves (kind of confusing, but you know what I mean) then I may understand the narcissism comment.

But to say that a man is attracted to another man because he has the same anatomy has absolutely nothing to do with narcissism, in my mind.

Here's one of the definitions of narcissism:
erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

Now, there are many other men out there who share the same anatomical characteristics as me, but they are nothing like me. There are women who do NOT share the same characteristics, but I identify with them completely, because of their nature and actions, mindsets, etc. THAT would be more like narcissim to me.

True narcissism would require that one find sexual gratification without the assistance of ANY other partner, male or female.

And my comment about incest has to do with being drawn sexually to someone who reminds one of one's mother.....maybe not necessarily apropos to this conversation.