Do OPs have a grace problem?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Nothing strange about it, I gave my view and that was that. Generally speaking, oneness pentecostal three stepper salvation theology isn't a grace-based theology, it's a works-based theology. For example, three stepper oneness pentecostal salvation theology requires another man, other than Jesus Christ, to perform righteous works on your behalf before one is saved. Unless that man performs the work, no salvation. That's not a grace-based theology.

One stepper oneness pentecostals are much closer to a grace-based theology than three steppers.

I guess Luther was confused as to what Grace meant...or you are

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

Websters works when you are discussing what Grace is and what it isn't since pretty much your idea of Grace is crooked.

The only reaction needed for Grace is acceptance, not the works that you mentioned at the start.

No. .. Websters does not define Greek words. You start with the Greek not with English and all its nuances and uses. Unmerited is not part of charis and its usage in the greek.

[Truthseeker]

Luke2447, how much obedience does it take to enter heaven?

[jen4yeshua]

An article from Charisma magazine today:
http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...ong-with-grace

[jen4yeshua]

"The core reality of the grace message is to empower us to walk with God in a relationship of wholehearted love. Jesus called this “the first commandment” (Mark 12:30). Thus, the Holy Spirit’s first agenda is to establish the first commandment in first place in the church. This must also be our first agenda. Wholehearted love is to be “first” in our response to God because it is how the Father relates to the Son and how the Godhead relates to us. We must see grace through the lens of this quality of love. To think of grace without it being anchored in the first commandment is to be aiming at the wrong target. Thus, we distort the grace message when we do not interpret it through the lens of the first commandment. We must love Jesus on His terms, and He defined loving God in terms of a spirit of obedience to His commandments (see John 14:15, 21, 23)."

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Luke2447, how much obedience does it take to enter heaven?

The faithfulness of Abraham.

Gen 22:16 and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,
Gen 22:17 I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies,
Gen 22:18 and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."

Gen 26:4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed,
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."




How much sin does it takes to not enter heaven?




Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.


Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
Joh 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
Joh 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.


1Jn 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.


1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
1Jn 2:8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.
1Jn 2:9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.
1Jn 2:10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.


Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Eze 18:21 "But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
Eze 18:24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.
Eze 18:25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life.
Eze 18:28 Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.



Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by jen4yeshua

"The core reality of the grace message is to empower us to walk with God in a relationship of wholehearted love. Jesus called this “the first commandment” (Mark 12:30). Thus, the Holy Spirit’s first agenda is to establish the first commandment in first place in the church. This must also be our first agenda. Wholehearted love is to be “first” in our response to God because it is how the Father relates to the Son and how the Godhead relates to us. We must see grace through the lens of this quality of love. To think of grace without it being anchored in the first commandment is to be aiming at the wrong target. Thus, we distort the grace message when we do not interpret it through the lens of the first commandment. We must love Jesus on His terms, and He defined loving God in terms of a spirit of obedience to His commandments (see John 14:15, 21, 23)."

grace is simply about the provision. The receiving the reality of grace is based on contextual faith which is progressive. We are saved by progressive justification through progressive sanctification. He set us apart by his leading and judges our response which cleanses us should we follow and abide. 1 john 1:7

[Aquila]

The Christian is called to be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus. No, we'll never be exactly like Jesus, but we can bear His likeness, just as a child bears the likeness of it's father. Our character is to be as Christlike as possible in our current stage of spiritual development.

Sanctification is a journey.

And the Christian is called upon to obey the "Law of Christ" which is also called the "Law of Love":

-We are called to love the LORD with all our being.
-And we are called to demonstrate that love by loving others as ourselves.

Every other law is commentary relating to its given dispensation and isn't directly applicable to the Christian. When anything is added to these two laws... legalism is at the door. When faced with a circumstance wherein you're called to act... ask these questions:

Does this action demonstrate a love for God?
Does this action demonstrate a love for others?

If the action doesn't demonstrate a love for God and others... it's a sin. Even if the action is one that is traditionally considered to be "righteous". For example, if you just go to church to show off your talents and advance yourself socially through religious pride and arrogance... for you... going to church is a sin. But if you go to church for no other reason that because you love God and desire to be of help to your brethren... then it is a righteous act of loving faith.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I guess Luther was confused as to what Grace meant...or you are

Or....you are. Or...we all are.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

grace is simply about the provision. The receiving the reality of grace is based on contextual faith which is progressive. We are saved by progressive justification through progressive sanctification. He set us apart by his leading and judges our response which cleanses us should we follow and abide. 1 john 1:7

When is the individual redeemed in this progressive salvation? When is grace sufficient in the progress of those seeking redemption by the blood of the Lamb of God?