He is Still Oneness Pentecostal In Heart

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The RCC has massive amounts of information some of it public and some of it hidden away in the vatican libraries.

The main problem with most of the public books is that many of them have been edited and changed throughout the centuries, mostly to fit Catholic doctrine.

The RCC burned thousands of books they deemed heretical.

Everybody attacks the arians beliefs, but the truth is that no one knows what the arians really believe for their original writings were destroyed.
What everyone attacks is the caricature of their beliefs that their enemies have created of them.

Come one someone show me a true arian book, where is it?
Then how can you even debunk what the arians believe if you do not have a single document of theirs?

And you know this how? Chick Tracts?

BTW All that stuff about Arianism is a side issue but we do have some writings of Arius

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by bishoph

I understand your point, however, I personally believe that your position is somewhat flawed.....and I assure you I am not one with my head stuck in the sand!

However, for the sake of discussion.......the lack of a provable and continual chain of oneness believers who taught Jesus name baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost speaking with other tongues does not mean that they did not exist. History does give us snippets of info on sects throughout history that were without a doubt oneness......but as you already know, most of the info about these groups was destroyed by the Catholic church along with their physical annihilation; and what little info we do have comes from those who hated and destroyed them.

Secondly, if your second scenario were true and the church went into complete apostasy with only small breakaway groups that tried to reform/oppose them to the point of annihilation and then a restoration of that glorious church beginning at the reformation and finishing (doctrinally) with the revelation of Jesus name baptism in 1914; I do not see that as a problem. "But the scripture says the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church." If the church is alive and well today, even if it went through a period of darkness and apostasy, the gates of hell have not prevailed. (and I actually don't believe that Jesus was speaking about a centuries long battle in which the church would prevail anyway.....I tend to believe that he was addressing the present day location and culture. And yet I do believe the church will prevail in the end....go figure!)

I agree, the Church will prevail, no doubt about that. The question though is, was the Church virtually absent for almost 2000 years...until 1913? To hold to such a view would be astounding and unbelievable in my opinion. Teaching that the Church was nowhere to be found until a certain little Christian sect suddenly appeared in 1913 has absolutely no scriptural foundation and in fact dismisses the power of Holy Ghost in the Church of Jesus Christ.

As I pointed out earlier, the oneness pentecostal sect isn't the sole representative of the body of Christ today and sure wasn't the sole representative of the body of Christ prior to 1913 for it didn't exist before then. The Church of Jesus Christ was alive and well before 1913, changing lives, delivering people and offering worship to God during those many centuries before the sudden appearance of the sect of oneness pentecostalsim in 1913. 1913 is the magic date for oneness pentecsotalism but it's not the magic date for the Church of Jesus Christ.

The body of Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ is much larger than the latter day sect (circa 1913) of oneness pentecostalism. You and others may not recognize or accept that fact, but it's the truth nonetheless.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I agree, the Church will prevail, no doubt about that. The question though is, was the Church virtually absent for almost 2000 years...until 1913? To hold to such a view would be astounding and unbelievable in my opinion. Teaching that the Church was nowhere to be found until a certain little Christian sect suddenly appeared in 1913 has absolutely no scriptural foundation and in fact dismisses the power of Holy Ghost in the Church of Jesus Christ.

As I pointed out earlier, the oneness pentecostal sect isn't the sole representative of the body of Christ today and sure wasn't the sole representative of the body of Christ prior to 1913 for it didn't exist before then. The Church of Jesus Christ was alive and well before 1913, changing lives, delivering people and offering worship to God during those many centuries before the sudden appearance of the sect of oneness pentecostalsim in 1913. 1913 is the magic date for oneness pentecsotalism but it's not the magic date for the Church of Jesus Christ.

The body of Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ is much larger than the latter day sect (circa 1913) of oneness pentecostalism. You and others may not recognize or accept that fact, but it's the truth nonetheless.

I agree.....the church of Jesus Christ is indeed much larger than any group/sect of modern times. However, I am not convinced that God overlooks disobedience. His Word clearly tells us there is one God, it clearly declares there is only one body/church and only one way to get in to that body. If a person has access to scripture, studies it with an open heart, the spirit will lead them and guide them into all truth regardless of the time/era they live in.

Do you believe that a person alive today who has the Bible sitting in their home, may even read it occasionally, but refuses to obey it regardless of the reason (i.e. tradition, etc.) will be lost? I do....if they do not come to a place of repentance before they leave this world. I have met soooo many people who sincerely sought after God and God led them through Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc. until they found an Apostolic church. My point is....while I do not have the exact quote in front of me, the man this thread was opened about made a statement to the effect that "denominations do not tell us what you believe, they tell us where you stopped listening to and following after God." If I start following him in any "faith" and stop because I have found my comfort level, then I have stopped being led by the spirit and am being led by the flesh....and we all know where that will lead.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by bishoph

I agree.....the church of Jesus Christ is indeed much larger than any group/sect of modern times. However, I am not convinced that God overlooks disobedience. His Word clearly tells us there is one God, it clearly declares there is only one body/church and only one way to get in to that body. If a person has access to scripture, studies it with an open heart, the spirit will lead them and guide them into all truth regardless of the time/era they live in.

Do you believe that a person alive today who has the Bible sitting in their home, may even read it occasionally, but refuses to obey it regardless of the reason (i.e. tradition, etc.) will be lost? I do....if they do not come to a place of repentance before they leave this world. I have met soooo many people who sincerely sought after God and God led them through Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc. until they found an Apostolic church. My point is....while I do not have the exact quote in front of me, the man this thread was opened about made a statement to the effect that "denominations do not tell us what you believe, they tell us where you stopped listening to and following after God." If I start following him in any "faith" and stop because I have found my comfort level, then I have stopped being led by the spirit and am being led by the flesh....and we all know where that will lead.

Bishop what about those who He leads out of an Apostolic Church??? I have to be honest we were brought out. we are still serving the Lord and living a separated life. My old friends think we backslid but that could not be further from the truth.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And you know this how? Chick Tracts?

BTW All that stuff about Arianism is a side issue but we do have some writings of Arius

Read a little bit of history and you will eventually come across the burning of heretics along with their wrtitings.

Are you sure those writings of Arius are authentic or are they doctored?

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Bishop what about those who He leads out of an Apostolic Church??? I have to be honest we were brought out. we are still serving the Lord and living a separated life. My old friends think we backslid but that could not be further from the truth.

There definitely could be times that God would lead a person out of an "Apostolic" church. However, (and I was not there and do not know your walk with the Lord) I believe that if he led them out, he would lead them into a truth preaching assembly.

I have seen people so hurt and traumatized by brutish pastors and ministry, or horrific hurts from moral failure and other situations, that they have left and truly felt that God had led them to a non-truth preaching church, however when they looked back over time they realized that they still believed everything they always believed, and that in reality they needed to be back where those things were taught and truly practiced but not back to the abusive leadership.

Again I am not saying that is your case.....I respect you and love you even if I disagree with where you go to church at this time......you have to work out your own salvation (and that of your home) with fear and trembling.....my prayer is that if you are in error, God will show you, and that you will be sincere, honest, and submitted enough to HIS voice to follow HIM. I truly believe that God still speaks.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Read a little bit of history and you will eventually come across the burning of heretics along with their wrtitings.

Are you sure those writings of Arius are authentic or are they doctored?

We weren't talking about burning writings.

We were talking about the Vatican having a vast library of ancient writings..
These were your words

The RCC has massive amounts of information some of it public and some of it hidden away in the vatican libraries.

The main problem with most of the public books is that many of them have been edited and changed throughout the centuries, mostly to fit Catholic doctrine.

That was your response to what I said

I've often wished to be able to go into the Vatican and see of the rumors were true to begin with...that they had a bunch of ancient books they've kept from the public for centuries

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Read a little bit of history and you will eventually come across the burning of heretics along with their wrtitings.

Are you sure those writings of Arius are authentic or are they doctored?

MMmmmmmm

The RCC also burned and censured all documents and opinions concerning the heretical idea that the Earth CIRCLED the Sun rather than the other way around.

Just thought I would bring this up since you claimed you were banned from GNC for being a YEC.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by bishoph

I agree.....the church of Jesus Christ is indeed much larger than any group/sect of modern times. However, I am not convinced that God overlooks disobedience. His Word clearly tells us there is one God, it clearly declares there is only one body/church and only one way to get in to that body. If a person has access to scripture, studies it with an open heart, the spirit will lead them and guide them into all truth regardless of the time/era they live in.

Do you believe that a person alive today who has the Bible sitting in their home, may even read it occasionally, but refuses to obey it regardless of the reason (i.e. tradition, etc.) will be lost? I do....if they do not come to a place of repentance before they leave this world. I have met soooo many people who sincerely sought after God and God led them through Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc. until they found an Apostolic church. My point is....while I do not have the exact quote in front of me, the man this thread was opened about made a statement to the effect that "denominations do not tell us what you believe, they tell us where you stopped listening to and following after God." If I start following him in any "faith" and stop because I have found my comfort level, then I have stopped being led by the spirit and am being led by the flesh....and we all know where that will lead.

I've met many people who were raised in a so-called self-labeled 'apostolic' environment and found that the body of Christ was much larger than the 'apostolic' Christian sect (circa 1913). They are now Baptists, Methodists, Assembly of God, 'charismatic' and several other sects and they are still redeemed by the blood and Children of God even though they are no longer part of the so-called 'apostolic' church. Leaving a sect isn't leaving God in spite of what many teach. Not saying that you personally teach that, but generally speaking those who leave the 'apostolic' sect for another sect are usually viewed as backslidden.

The fact is, the Church of Jesus Christ was alive and well in the centuries before 1913 and it's alive and well apart from the 'apostolic' sect within Christianity today. To deny the Church before 1913 is to reject the power and victory that is inherent within the body of Christ, choosing instead to embrace the view that Christ's body was dead, buried and absent, unseen, invisible, powerless, meaningless, defeated for almost 2000 years.....until 1913.

There is one who will quickly agree with those who hold to such a view of centuries long defeated Church of Jesus Christ. The one whom the Church has had victory over for the past 2000 years. The accuser of the brethren. The father of lies. He will gladly agree and promote the idea of a defeated, dead and worthless Church over the centuries. That's his nature.

[Whole Hearted]

There is no salvation outside of the Acts 2:38 message. NoOne issaved that doesn't repent, get baptised in Jesus name and recoieve the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and live a life of holiness NO ON.