The church in history

[Esaias]

Who says the church, the REAL church, must be visible throughout history from Pentecost till now?

The Reformed Protestant doctrine is not apostolic succession, but apostolic continuity - ie, the real church is whoever believes and practices the Bible, whenever they may be living.

The Catholic/Orthodox churches claim apostolic succession - ie, one must point to a continuously visible and continuously existing 'church' to identify the 'real' church.

Not saying either is correct, just pointing out to seekerman that his argument against OPs being representative of the true church is outside the pale of Reformed, Protestant, and Evangelical orthodoxy, and would be recognizable as valid only by a catholic/Eastern Orthodox person.

Just saying.

[Aquila]

I'm a Restorationist. I believe in what might be best described in this chart:

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Who says the church, the REAL church, must be visible throughout history from Pentecost till now?

The Reformed Protestant doctrine is not apostolic succession, but apostolic continuity - ie, the real church is whoever believes and practices the Bible, whenever they may be living.

The Catholic/Orthodox churches claim apostolic succession - ie, one must point to a continuously visible and continuously existing 'church' to identify the 'real' church.

Not saying either is correct, just pointing out to seekerman that his argument against OPs being representative of the true church is outside the pale of Reformed, Protestant, and Evangelical orthodoxy, and would be recognizable as valid only by a catholic/Eastern Orthodox person.

Just saying.

My issue is that oneness pentecostals cannot find the Church of Jesus Christ during the 1800s, a relatively recent century. Yet, after 1913, they suddenly can find the Church of Jesus Christ. Why?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by seekerman

My issue is that oneness pentecostals cannot find the Church of Jesus Christ during the 1800s, a relatively recent century. Yet, after 1913, they suddenly can find the Church of Jesus Christ. Why?

And my issue is 'why is that a problem'? lol

[Aquila]

Down through the ages there have always been various believers that experienced visions, unintelligible speach, dreams, angelic visitations, healings, and the casting out of devils... all described as being various forms of what was called "spiritual ecstasy". Many of the "Christian mystics" had experiences and revelatory understandings similar to modern day Pentecost. But they functioned within the church of their day.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

And my issue is 'why is that a problem'? lol

Oh, I realize that the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ after centuries of absence isn't a problem for many oneness pentecostals. The dominance of satan over the Church of Jesus Christ doesn't bother them at all it seems.

But.....why the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ in 1913? What was going on before then? Was the Church of Jesus Christ dead, buried, in hiding, afraid of the enemy....what?

1913 is a pivotal year in the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ it seems. Satan was completely victorious over the Church until that year?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Oh, I realize that the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ after centuries of absence isn't a problem for many oneness pentecostals. The dominance of satan over the Church of Jesus Christ doesn't bother them at all it seems.

But.....why the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ in 1913? What was going on before then? Was the Church of Jesus Christ dead, buried, in hiding, afraid of the enemy....what?

1913 is a pivotal year in the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ it seems. Satan was completely victorious over the Church until that year?

How about YOU TELL US where the church was down through the ages?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

How about YOU TELL US where the church was down through the ages?

LOL. I'm trying to find out why oneness pentecostals can't find the Church of Jesus Christ in the 1800s but no problem after 1913. Do you have any thoughts on why 1913 is such a pivotal year for the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by seekerman

LOL. I'm trying to find out why oneness pentecostals can't find the Church of Jesus Christ in the 1800s but no problem after 1913. Do you have any thoughts on why 1913 is such a pivotal year for the sudden appearance of the Church of Jesus Christ?

I have all sorts of thoughts on church history.

[Pliny]

I could care less about 1913. I do care about the doctrine that embodies the church. That doctrine can be found throughout the centuries in spite of a very directed attack against it. You may have heard of the Inquisition for example. The RCC had for many centuries had control of kingdoms. They not only outlawed any organized "church" outside of themselves but they actively sought to keep people in the dark. They even outlawed the Bible in an effort to stop the church. Not only did they burn any contrary writing but they murdered those who held those beliefs. Thus, to assume absence of evidence is evidence of absence is patently wrong especially in this case.

Here is a book that has documented some of this if you truly want to know.
http://pentecostalpublishing.com/node/3538