I knew Brother Yaden. Grew up with his kids. He is a prince of a man. I love and respect him to this day and have nothing but the very finest opinion of him even while not agreeing with him on all points.
I have from the beginning of these forum discussions called the Affirmation Statement the "Infernal document" and have stated that the ripping of the org was wrong.
That being said, it must be sad to live a life so caught up in the past that you live there. Dan and his pals need to get over it and move along. We all get it. Dan hates the UPCI. He despises the doctrine his dad preached and lived. its become an obsession.
others have been "hurt" whatever. Suck it up people. Decide who you are and build what you believe God intends.
You will never build anything so long as you spend your time trying to tare down your neighbors house.
sad small people make demolition the project of their lives.
Feed this response reminds of the Catholics defense of the auto cities of the Dark Ages and Hillary Clinton's deflection about Benghazi. Basically instead of doing anything to right wrongs just let some time pass and say "that's old news".
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Feed this response reminds of the Catholics defense of the auto cities of the Dark Ages and Hillary Clinton's deflection about Benghazi. Basically instead of doing anything to right wrongs just let some time pass and say "that's old news".
What do you want to do Jason? You want the UPCI to stand up as a body and say "we were wrong?" You want all the cons to stop being cons, all the mods to start being libs?
Or do you just want to talk about it ad nausium, ad infinitum until our fingers fall off and we are all dead of old age?
WHAT DO YOU WANT Jason? What is the purpose?
because if you can define a purpose here then by all means lets get to it. But if we are just here to chip away at the hated UPCI, I for one am going to stand up and tell you you are wrong. that the effort does nothing to advance the kingdom of God and that people who throw rocks best be ready to deal with a few trebuchet loads fired back. I am happy to load it up and fire them off if needed.
So what is your pleasure Jason? You interested in explaining what your point is here are is this just the next chance you have to blast away at the UPCI. Im ready to blast back
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The hard liners could not allow for such a thing to happen. Open dialogue and reexamine what I have taught, it will show I am not perfect and correct on everything. This we cannot allow.
Bullseye. Ultra cons are NEVER interested in genuine dialogue and questions about scriptural exegesis. And for good reason. Most (if not all) of us former UCs that did dive deeper in the scriptures had to make some adjustments. There is some humble pie to be eaten and not everyone has developed the taste.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
What do you want to do Jason? You want the UPCI to stand up as a body and say "we were wrong?" You want all the cons to stop being cons, all the mods to start being libs?
Or do you just want to talk about it ad nausium, ad infinitum until our fingers fall off and we are all dead of old age?
WHAT DO YOU WANT Jason? What is the purpose?
because if you can define a purpose here then by all means lets get to it. But if we are just here to chip away at the hated UPCI, I for one am going to stand up and tell you you are wrong. that the effort does nothing to advance the kingdom of God and that people who throw rocks best be ready to deal with a few trebuchet loads fired back. I am happy to load it up and fire them off if needed.
So what is your pleasure Jason? You interested in explaining what your point is here are is this just the next chance you have to blast away at the UPCI. Im ready to blast back
Well Ferd here's what I think. DKB ought to play honest with history, look at all the schisms and defections of the last 20 years, admit there is still an underlying rift between current cons and mods and instead of overseeing the fellowship as it continues to fall into decline (mostly because of my way or the highway UCs) then take steps towards healing and reconciliation and make it more amicable for the next generation (the under 40s) to rebuild a strong fellowship for the future. Instead of acting like all is well, this year there's going to be great growth, apostolic revival is right around the corner and all that while the org is steadily (sometimes rapidly) declining.
Look they are reduced to counting a host of young preachers with little experience and a local license ( and several who don't even have a call to preach) in order to keep their statistics up, but how many of these will establish churches, and they count preaching points (so I guess if I went back in the UPC they'd count me as 1 minister and 2 churches since I preach at the county jail once it twice a month) . To borrow a political term ( and I know you like secular politics, apparently church politics too?) Its fuzzy math. They're dwindling losing established ministers and churches and running off many of the young ones too.
So while they're not likely to come out and say "we were wrong" I think it would be prudent to be more tolerant and set the stage for reconciliation in the future. OR they can keep the current strategy and be even more irrelevant (as an org) in 10 years and 20 then now, as they continue to dwindle and their claim to fame is being named in the books on cults.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Well Ferd here's what I think. DKB ought to play honest with history, look at all the schisms and defections of the last 20 years, admit there is still an underlying rift between current cons and mods and instead of overseeing the fellowship as it continues to fall into decline (mostly because of my way or the highway UCs) then take steps towards healing and reconciliation and make it more amicable for the next generation (the under 40s) to rebuild a strong fellowship for the future. Instead of acting like all is well, this year there's going to be great growth, apostolic revival is right around the corner and all that while the org is steadily (sometimes rapidly) declining.
Look they are reduced to counting a host of young preachers with little experience and a local license ( and several who don't even have a call to preach) in order to keep their statistics up, but how many of these will establish churches, and they count preaching points (so I guess if I went back in the UPC they'd count me as 1 minister and 2 churches since I preach at the county jail once it twice a month) . To borrow a political term ( and I know you like secular politics, apparently church politics too?) Its fuzzy math. They're dwindling losing established ministers and churches and running off many of the young ones too.
So while they're not likely to come out and say "we were wrong" I think it would be prudent to be more tolerant and set the stage for reconciliation in the future. OR they can keep the current strategy and be even more irrelevant (as an org) in 10 years and 20 then now, as they continue to dwindle and their claim to fame is being named in the books on cults.
I suppose because DBK hasnt called you up and given you a personal mia culpa you know there is no intent to bring things to a better frame?
LOL.
You guys want the UPCI to be something it never was. You want it to be the AOG with Jebus baptism if the whim hits to get something wet.
well. that isnt what it ever was. It isnt even what the PCI bunch was at the merger (I might know a thing or two about that seeing as I come from one of the very strong PCI churches that produced some of the PCI and the UPCIs early leaders and have spent some time talking to some of those fellers that were at the merger)...
but hey, you guys keep up the digging up bones and wringing hands and talking about what the Org ought to do.... which is weird because you guys doing all this talking pulled up stakes and bugged out a long time ago.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I suppose because DBK hasnt called you up and given you a personal mia culpa you know there is no intent to bring things to a better frame?
LOL.
You guys want the UPCI to be something it never was. You want it to be the AOG with Jebus baptism if the whim hits to get something wet.
well. that isnt what it ever was. It isnt even what the PCI bunch was at the merger (I might know a thing or two about that seeing as I come from one of the very strong PCI churches that produced some of the PCI and the UPCIs early leaders and have spent some time talking to some of those fellers that were at the merger)...
but hey, you guys keep up the digging up bones and wringing hands and talking about what the Org ought to do.... which is weird because you guys doing all this talking pulled up stakes and bugged out a long time ago.
Which is why you haven't heard from me, other than the occasional post as an interested spectator.
but hey, you guys keep up the digging up bones and wringing hands and talking about what the Org ought to do.... which is weird because you guys doing all this talking pulled up stakes and bugged out a long time ago.
Ferd,
No comments about Democrats, because your not one. No comments about Catholics because your not one. No critique of any group you are not a member of.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
Bullseye. Ultra cons are NEVER interested in genuine dialogue and questions about scriptural exegesis. And for good reason. Most (if not all) of us former UCs that did dive deeper in the scriptures had to make some adjustments. There is some humble pie to be eaten and not everyone has developed the taste.
Jason..... please be careful how you start out your responses. I read the first word WRONG! Had to repent and reread it "Bullseye!"
Been Thinkin
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
I suppose because DBK hasnt called you up and given you a personal mia culpa you know there is no intent to bring things to a better frame?
LOL.
You guys want the UPCI to be something it never was. You want it to be the AOG with Jebus baptism if the whim hits to get something wet.
well. that isnt what it ever was. It isnt even what the PCI bunch was at the merger (I might know a thing or two about that seeing as I come from one of the very strong PCI churches that produced some of the PCI and the UPCIs early leaders and have spent some time talking to some of those fellers that were at the merger)...
but hey, you guys keep up the digging up bones and wringing hands and talking about what the Org ought to do.... which is weird because you guys doing all this talking pulled up stakes and bugged out a long time ago.
Well Ferd I haven't been UPC in about 5 years, and the chances of ever going back are minimal, realistically speaking. I'm just passing information along about what I think should be done. For me to this point in my life it was the only org I was ever "in" (before I was Pentecostal I went to a Baptist church for about 4 months, but didn't know anything about denomination, though ALL Baptist churches were the same), and so since I haven't joined any other fellowship to this point, I still have an interest in the UPC.
I think a lot of us who spent good years of our lives attempting to build that fellowship up whether it was pastoring churches, teaching Bible studies, or just giving to this cause and that one, still have some interest in the org. I still would like to see the UPC grow, even though I'm not in it. I want my friend's churches to grow. I want them to see the "apostolic revival" that's been talked about for years. Why do you get so offended when ex-UPCers talk about it? Just because Dan got militant you think everyone is that way?
PS- You asked me what I though the org ought to do, then slam me for giving my opinion?
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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