The Real Evidence of Salvation

[Aquila]

I believe that people have unique and personal "salvation" experiences. Some might say that their salvation began when God began dealing with them... long before attending a church, repentance, baptism, etc. Others might look at their salvation beginning after baptism or the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

The fact that we have people on both sides proclaiming the "real this" or the "real that" only demonstrates that the reality of what is transpiring in the human soul isn't sinking in.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I'm not going to judge your motives but I've been in enough pentecostal services to know it is the case and I'm far from the only one to notice it.

I can attest to that.... whole services revolving around preaching of the standards, and those who don't believe and do so, going to hell. When there are far more important things to be teaching and discussing, I've been in way too many pentecostal services that turn into shouting/running/jumping/whooping and so on when someone is preaching against tv, or trinitiarians and many other things...

On the flip side of the coin, to be fair, I've been in lots of wonderful services where the power of God was moving mightily too, and moving without any mention of the above named "hot" topics. Messages that focused on the blood, or repentance, or entering into the holy of holies ... those messages reached far more deeper into your soul to change you, than any "standards-based" message.

Jason, have you read my post, Two Salvational Experiences? I wonder if you would share your thoughts on that.

I think you and I have been on a similar journey, trying to weed out the influences of man's doctrine, and yet trying to follow the apostles doctrine too. It is difficult to do. I shared my journey so far in that thread.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that people have unique and personal "salvation" experiences. Some might say that their salvation began when God began dealing with them... long before attending a church, repentance, baptism, etc. Others might look at their salvation beginning after baptism or the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

The fact that we have people on both sides proclaiming the "real this" or the "real that" only demonstrates that the reality of what is transpiring in the human soul isn't sinking in.

Or perhaps the people who think they ate saved by their water baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues were actually justified by their faith and so their genuine saving faith led them to a deeper experience with God which they mistook for initial salvation? What do you think Aquilla. I think we'd all agree that there ate not 2 ways or two different points if salvation.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I can attest to that.... whole services revolving around preaching of the standards, and those who don't believe and do so, going to hell. When there are far more important things to be teaching and discussing, I've been in way too many pentecostal services that turn into shouting/running/jumping/whooping and so on when someone is preaching against tv, or trinitiarians and many other things...

On the flip side of the coin, to be fair, I've been in lots of wonderful services where the power of God was moving mightily too, and moving without any mention of the above named "hot" topics. Messages that focused on the blood, or repentance, or entering into the holy of holies ... those messages reached far more deeper into your soul to change you, than any "standards-based" message.

Jason, have you read my post, Two Salvational Experiences? I wonder if you would share your thoughts on that.

I think you and I have been on a similar journey, trying to weed out the influences of man's doctrine, and yet trying to follow the apostles doctrine too. It is difficult to do. I shared my journey so far in that thread.

I will check it out soon.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

Jason wrote,........
.
Then Jason what are you saying here?

“ We can know that we are saved if we believe that Jesus is the Son of God”---mental assent--+---- knowing that we are saved?

Jason wrote,
I'm talking about the 3 categories in
1 John. You cherry picked one of the three to make a point or perhaps simply misunderstood my point. John also teaches that true believers must pass the moral and social tests also. I laid out all 3 of these in the opening post. To ignore the essentiality of the other two categories is to miss my whole argument from 1 John.

OK, then let's take all three, the only reason that I picked that one is because the other 2, are attributes of a saved person. But this one shows that the person is ready to repent and be born again and shouldn't be in with the other 2.
Jason wrote,

1)We can know that we are saved if we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah/Christ, that He came in the flesh, made atonement for our sins, and is God. These are the theological tests

.

Obviously, if the person is told they are saved, because they believe Jesus is the Son of God,----then that is mental assent. However, they should believe all of No1, before they repent.

Jason wrote

2)We can know that we are saved if we have love for fellow Christians (in the modern sense this would mean not only those of our own organization, that is in fact the opposite, a party spirit), love for all people, and genuine concern and compassion for those who are in need. In a word-if our lives are defined by love for others, it is a strong evidence that we belong to God. These are the social tests

.

And yes, LOVE, is one of the biggest Tests that reveals a true child of God. The Fruit of the Spirit, works with love. Faith will not work, without love.
But love can be an outward show that can be carried out in public, just for show for certain people, while hating others. You know like, that stupid race, or those stupid Republicans or stupid Democrats.
Love should be for all mankind, and especially the brothers and sisters, and yes that would be, those born again according to Acts 2;38. And that is not a Party Spirit. That is demanded by God.

Jason wrote

3)We can know that we are saved if we are trying to live Christ like lives, defined by holiness, godliness, righteousness, and a keeping of God's commandments. If our lives reflect Christ we can know that we are saved. These are the moral tests

.

Absolutely! But then we can't turn around and preach, “we sin every day.' “you're just human, so don't worry about it” Or even worse, once saved always saved.
Not saying that you believe or teach any of that, but most that don't understand the power of the Holy Ghost to help keep us from sin, do say those things.