An Apology

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Real Realism

Due to career moves in my family growing up, as well as my own, I have attended six churches in my lifetime. All claiming to be "Apostolic." Not a single church has espoused this belief. We may have had a few kooks in the church who themselves might have leaned in a crazy direction like this, but it was not condoned, nor did they stick around long.

You know of those who do this then? Lots of people do.

Kudos for separating yourself from them. Some choose to turn a blind eye to the practice.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by n david

Our church name has "Apostolic" in it, and we call ourselves Apostolics....but we don't believe this alleged doctrine.

MOST don't. SOME do.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I did. your denial and continual harping does not change the fact that you are a liar.

Point it out. QUOTE IT.

[Esaias]

Sounds like innuendo to me... if people are preaching blatantly false doctrine, which is resulting in people dying, then to refuse to name names is to help cover up the crime...

Suppose someone wandered into such a church, not knowing they were teaching such a 'sewerage theology'? What if by outing them you could save a life? and what if by refusing to do such a thing, you helped hide a dangerous theology, helped kill a child, helped keep such things under cover of darkness...?

[chad87]

Being from southeast Louisiana, there is a UPC/Apostolic church every few miles here. I know of 7 Apostolic churches within a 25 mile radius of my home. None of these believe that way. Maybe some individual members, but I have never heard of any.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by seekerman

MOST don't. SOME do.

SOME people from other religions believe this as well, and I can point you to actual cases in the news where their children have actually died or suffered. So why make this about being Apostolic? It's an extreme view that is found on the fringes of many different religions (including Christian Scientists); it isn't unique to Apostolics.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sounds like innuendo to me... if people are preaching blatantly false doctrine, which is resulting in people dying, then to refuse to name names is to help cover up the crime...

Suppose someone wandered into such a church, not knowing they were teaching such a 'sewerage theology'? What if by outing them you could save a life? and what if by refusing to do such a thing, you helped hide a dangerous theology, helped kill a child, helped keep such things under cover of darkness...?

Believe me, I've done my part when I find there are those who go to such churches. In fact, I just had a young lady to whom I had been witnessing call me a couple of weeks ago to tell me she was leaving a church which practiced such things. She had been a part of the cult-like environment for a number of years but began to see that the pastor wasn't preaching the truth. She was so excited to be free of swillish theology of that particular 'apostolic' church.

To settle everyone's mind, she moved to another 'apostolic' church which preaches the 'truth' but doesn't preach the sewerage theology which promotes the behavior that allows innocent little infants and children to suffer, and sometimes die, for lack of medical attention.

So, yes, I actively battle it. But it's up to the Holy Ghost to do the work.

If epley just hadn't removed himself from the sinners here on the forum possibly he could have helped with specific names. Or maybe not.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by crakjak

No one is espousing the doctrine on this forum, so why are you making such an issue of it???

Because he wants to prove that there are people here (namely Bro. Epley) who fellowship with people who espouse that doctrine, and thereby endorse/approve of it in practice, making them as evil as the people who believe it. (TIC)

It's an extended attempt to malign Bro. Epley's character by proving that he fellowships with evil people. Or at least, that's how its coming across to me.

Originally Posted by seekerman

You know of those who do this then? Lots of people do.

Kudos for separating yourself from them. Some choose to turn a blind eye to the practice.

Being aware of what someone believes and not crushing them for it isn't the same as turning a blind eye to it. If I was aware that one of my friends held this view, I may occasionally discuss it with them, but I wouldn't treat them like they were evil people. If, however, they chose to let their child accelerate toward death and seek no treatment, I wouldn't hesitate to call DHS and report them for neglect and/or child endangerment. That isn't turning a blind eye.

Fortunately, in my 37 years of being in the Apostolic church, I have NEVER been presented with that situation. Amazing, since we fellowshiped with quite a few conservative independents when I was growing up--including the former pastor and people from Racine, MO, where Bro. Epley pastors now.

The only real situation I know of is the one that involved my own Dad, which I've already recounted on this thread. My Grandfather did the right thing, and my Dad was flexible enough to reverse his views, although I think it still troubled him that his faith wasn't "enough."

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

SOME people from other religions believe this as well, and I can point you to actual cases in the news where their children have actually died or suffered. So why make this about being Apostolic? It's an extreme view that is found on the fringes of many different religions (including Christian Scientists); it isn't unique to Apostolics.

I agree totally that it happens in other Christian sects. But it DOES happen in oneness penecostal sects which self-label themselves as 'apostolic' also. This isn't what so many folks on the forum aren't wishing to face. They personally attack me and that's ok, I'm a big boy and nothing can be said to/about me that hasn't been said before. I completely and totally don't care what folks say about me. But this isn't about me, this is about those instances, those practices in SOME self-labeled 'apostolic' churches which practice such things.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I agree totally that it happens in other Christian sects. But it DOES happen in oneness penecostal sects which self-label themselves as 'apostolic' also. This isn't what so many folks on the forum aren't wishing to face. They personally attack me and that's ok, I'm a big boy and nothing can be said to/about me that hasn't been said before. I completely and totally don't care what folks say about me. But this isn't about me, this is about those instances, those practices in SOME self-labeled 'apostolic' churches which practice such things.

Seekerman, I'm facing it just fine--and so is everyone else. What is objectionable is this assertion:

Originally Posted by seekerman

The reason I'm asking is that you don't see this kind of behavior in most Christian sects. There is something in the message, in the 'apostolic' theology which lends itself to people doing this.....

You are associating this directly with Apostolic theology and you originally implied that it was exclusive to Apostolics. It isn't. It's a fringe doctrine found in many different religions. Ergo, it isn't "Apostolic theology" that lends itself to people doing this; it's something else. There is a common thread, but since there are so many people from OTHER religions who also fall into this category, the common thread is NOT Apostolic doctrine/theology.