Sinful housework

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Let's say a person is in a state where they have no appetite. They do not desire to eat. Someone offers them a plate of pasta. They look at it, smell the aroma, and feel nauseous. Is that how temptation occurs to one who is sanctified? The mere offer of sin, with no corresponding 'desire'?

And what about Eve... she was offered the forbidden fruit, and saw it was 'desireable to make one wise'. That is temptation for all non-sanctified persons, Christians and unbelievers alike?

As for James, does he not say 'every man'? Thus, every man (sanctified or not) when he is tempted is drawn away by his own LUST (desire) and enticed... thus there is a desire of some sort present which is whistling to his mind...'hey, lookey here, turn aside and come unto me..' (like the whorish woman in Proverbs who's steps lead down to hades...)???

As i pointed out yes there is desire there but it is not of necessity evil desire. There is nothing wrong with desireing wisdom but Eve went about it the wrong way. Temptation for the saint, the christian and the sinner all begin with a natural desire that is being offered an unlawful means of gartification.

The difference between the sanctified individual and the otheres is simply when the offer of sin is made the sanctified individual is not naturally inclinded to it. It is like a 300 series, stainless steel object that is not magnetic at all. The reason is that the presence of nickel alters the physical structure of the stainless steel and removes or inhibits any magnetic qualities.
The same with sanctification when our old nature is removed and the new nature is introduced it removes the pull of sin.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Honestly, I do not see where Michael exhibited any bitterness, anger, or anything in his posts.

Perhaps I am just blind, but seriously, I did not see it. I read your comments about his posts being bitter or whatever and thought 'Wha...? What in the world? Aquila has been listening to 'Sam' too much...' lol

LOL! You're not right. Don't mix thread topics. LOL

I've talked with Michael quite a bit in the past about this perfection business. Michael wrote...

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

IF ONE DESIRES TO BE PERFECT?

I did not know we had a choice in the matter?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Or:

12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God Col. 4:12

So it looks like its not optional from here!

What was he responding to? My statement,

Originally Posted by Aquila

If one desires to be "perfect" I believe they do well to grow in two areas...

-They should seek to grow in loving God with all of their being.
-They should demonstrate their growing love of God by growing in their love towards others. Ever increasingly loving others as themselves.

Notice, I'm speaking with courtesy. I'm not being dogmatic. I'm simply saying, if one desires to be "perfect"... I believe that they the do well to grow in two areas.

Where does Michael get that by saying "If one desires" that I believe that it is "optional"??? He's merely lashing out at the post I gave as he has in the past. Because I strongly emphasize the commandments of the Law of Christ over all legalistic demands.

I was being courteous. Leaving it open for those who do not wish to do what I think (even if Michael and I believe they should). Always leave people free to chose. You can't kick a person into wanting to be holy.

[KeptByTheWord]

I've been thinking about this some more, and have this thought to offer on the subject of perfection, sin, and holiness of the heart.

When believers come to Christ, and make the decision to surrender their life to him, they then begin a process that will never be completed, as long as we are in these fleshly, earthly bodies.

That process we begin, some call sanctification. I would like to look at it this way.

It is simply learning to submit to the will of Christ in our lives, and learning submission, and obedience to the Lord. Sounds simple, but as we all know… it’s not.

For some, this process may be easier than others. Each one of us struggles with different things in our hearts that do not want to come under the obedience of the law of the Spirit.

All believers should be in the process of learning obedience to the will and mind of the Lord. Each of us are at different stages in that process, and that is why we must be careful not to judge one another too hastily.

Finding that sweet place of complete surrender in our lives is not easy to do, but once your focus on Christ is in its proper place in your life, it is easy to surrender things to Him that you once thought you could never do without.

We must be aware each day we live that our flesh does not want to submit to the Lord, and it will constantly surprise us with its desires, temptations, and sins. However, if we are aware of this constant battle between the flesh and the spirit, then the spirit of Christ within us will recognize the attack, and give us the grace, courage, and strength to overcome, and fight back against our flesh nature.

This is the difference between a believer, and a non-believer. We all face onslaughts of attack from our flesh nature... but HOW we deal with it changes the outcome. A believer in Christ will be able recognize the flesh nature, and bring it into submission to Christ. An unbeliever will continue on his merry way, allowing the flesh nature to rule.

So then, all believers are at various levels of submission and obedience to Christ. Have you felt that still small voice speaking to you, asking you to do something, of which you don't want to do, but know you should? How you respond is critical in your continuing relationship with the Lord.

Many people love the Lord, they love the blessings associated with loving the Lord, but they don’t want to have any part of the SUBMISSION and OBEDIENCE that goes along with all that the Lord has offered to us.

How far you want to go with the Lord will be determined by the level of obedience and submission to HIS WILL you seek in your life.

[Aquila]

Good stuff KBTW.

[Luke]

The church that I grew up in taught progressive sanctification but i cannot see that doctrine taught in the Bible.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Luke

As i pointed out yes there is desire there but it is not of necessity evil desire. There is nothing wrong with desireing wisdom but Eve went about it the wrong way. Temptation for the saint, the christian and the sinner all begin with a natural desire that is being offered an unlawful means of gartification.

The difference between the sanctified individual and the otheres is simply when the offer of sin is made the sanctified individual is not naturally inclinded to it. It is like a 300 series, stainless steel object that is not magnetic at all. The reason is that the presence of nickel alters the physical structure of the stainless steel and removes or inhibits any magnetic qualities.
The same with sanctification when our old nature is removed and the new nature is introduced it removes the pull of sin.

This analogy sounds good, but it is not practical in the area of our flesh. As long as we are in these human fleshly bodies, our flesh nature is going to try to rise up against the spirit. The flesh nature will not be done away with as long as we are in these earthly corruptible bodies. It will always be warring against the spirit of God within us.

We can overcome, and we can resist the flesh with the Spirit of God, but we must NOT believe that because we have the Spirit of Christ within us that we will not ever have to battle the flesh nature again!!! That is a LIE FROM THE ENEMY! He would seek to have us believe that we have become perfect, and thereby attack us unaware, just when we thought we had won the battle.

Therefore, it is of utmost importance that we realize, as Paul stated, "I fight the good FIGHT of faith" ... it is a fight between the flesh and the spirit that we must constantly be aware of, and recognize we will not be completely released of our flesh nature until the day when our bodies are changed into incorruptible ones.

Originally Posted by Luke

The church that I grew up in taught progressive sanctification but i cannot see that doctrine taught in the Bible.

We can walk each day aware of our flesh nature, knowing that it is desiring to rise up and fight us at any given moment, but with the Spirit of Christ within us, we can recognize the attack, and rebuke it, and thus live overcoming.

BUT we must not think that our flesh nature will be done away with until the day we receive our glorified bodies. We must be on guard against its attack at all times, because it seeks to destroy us, along with the enemy. It is only the Spirit of God living and REIGNING within us that will allows us to fight back against the attack of the enemy, and overcome.

I do not see ANY teaching in the Word of God that shows that the flesh nature will be transformed or destroyed in this earthly body. However, the Spirit of the Lord is given to help us recognize, rebuke and submit the flesh nature to the Spirit of God.

[MarieA27]

I don't know, I kind of look at things this way. When we die out to the flesh, and live in the spirit, we will of course be tempted, but those temptations won't be tempting.

It's like a starving man, a hungry man, a man who isn't hungry nor full, and a extremely stuffed man. When food is brought to the starving or hungry man they'll consume it heartily. The man that is either or, can take it or leave it, and he'll take it if it's especially appetizing. But to the full man, the food would man, the food would make him feel sick, even the smell of it.

I think that KBTW is saying that we're like the man in the middle concerning this flesh nature, and Luke is saying that we are to be like the full man.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

I don't know, I kind of look at things this way. When we die out to the flesh, and live in the spirit, we will of course be tempted, but those temptations won't be tempting.

It's like a starving man, a hungry man, a man who isn't hungry nor full, and a extremely stuffed man. When food is brought to the starving or hungry man they'll consume it heartily. The man that is either or, can take it or leave it, and he'll take it if it's especially appetizing. But to the full man, the food would man, the food would make him feel sick, even the smell of it.

I think that KBTW is saying that we're like the man in the middle concerning this flesh nature, and Luke is saying that we are to be like the full man.

Is your flesh nature fully and completely at all times submitted to the spirit of the Lord?

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Is your flesh nature fully and completely at all times submitted to the spirit of the Lord?

You might have to rephrase your question, as I don't talk in the same terms, or my meaning may be different from what you're asking. I just know that the desire to sin or the temptation to do wrong isn't appealing unto me as it once was when I was in the world and in the flesh (carnal minded) or even when I first started turning towards the Lord, first learned of this one way. It really has lost its pull and draw.

But if I keep my mind on the Lord, be prayerful, fasting, submitting myself unto the will of the Lord, when anything provoking arises, bringing with it the temptation to handle or do something carnal, the word would always come that will counter that, with the Spirit bringing all things to my remembrance.

And no, I'm not where I want to be, but I'm just continuing on, pressing my way, to be more and more like Jesus.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

The church that I grew up in taught progressive sanctification but i cannot see that doctrine taught in the Bible.

So... you were as sanctified in behavior, knowledge, and practice the day you were saved as you are now?

If you have ever learned more about what God expects... you're experiencing progressive sanctification. Duh. lol