Sinful housework

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

I don't know, I kind of look at things this way. When we die out to the flesh, and live in the spirit, we will of course be tempted, but those temptations won't be tempting.

Then they aren't temptations. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Is your flesh nature fully and completely at all times submitted to the spirit of the Lord?

Nope. She never even gets "moody". lol

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

You might have to rephrase your question, as I don't talk in the same terms, or my meaning may be different from what you're asking. I just know that the desire to sin or the temptation to do wrong isn't appealing unto me as it once was when I was in the world and in the flesh (carnal minded) or even when I first started turning towards the Lord, first learned of this one way. It really has lost its pull and draw.

But if I keep my mind on the Lord, be prayerful, fasting, submitting myself unto the will of the Lord, when anything provoking arises, bringing with it the temptation to handle or do something carnal, the word would always come that will counter that, with the Spirit bringing all things to my remembrance.

And no, I'm not where I want to be, but I'm just continuing on, pressing my way, to be more and more like Jesus.

The question is pretty simple, and I think you just don't want to answer the simple question, which is, are you never tempted to sin? Is the nature of your flesh completely dead and never bothers you, and you never have to deal with any temptations or problems with your flesh?

Actually, from your statement "And no, I'm not where I want to be, but I'm just continuing on, pressing my way, to be more and more like Jesus." , that pretty much sums up where every honest believer is in their walk with the Lord, and you admit that you have problems, but you are constantly working to keep the Spirit reigning in your life.

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Then they aren't temptations. lol

Was there ever something in your life where you just absolutely loved that thing, craved it, cherished it, was always weak to it, but as time went on and you've changed, that thing has completely lost its flavor, as to when someone brought it around, it had no affect on you? You were tempted but it wasn't tempting. ..

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Nope. She never even gets "moody". lol

sigh... why you always get like this every time people talk about perfection?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

Was there ever something in your life where you just absolutely loved that thing, craved it, cherished it, was always weak to it, but as time went on and you've changed, that thing has completely lost its flavor, as to when someone brought it around, it had no affect on you? You were tempted but it wasn't tempting. ..

Yes, of course I understand this. This is just one element of our flesh that has come under the authority of the spirit in our lives. But... there are many, many others.... like the sin of pride, for example.

Can you honestly say you never suffer from feelings of pride? Does the thought NEVER cross your mind that "I'm a pretty good Christian?" or.... ________ (fill in the blank....) If these kind of thoughts randomly pass through your head, does that mean your flesh nature is tempting you?

If the flesh was completely dead, how could this be possible?

You see, how you react to that thought, temptation, or desire is what determines the outcome, not just that you are having that thought.

The flesh nature is NOT dead in you, it may have been knocked down in certain battles, but it is still there, and the reason and purpose for the Spirit of the Lord in our hearts is to recognize this attack from either our flesh, or even the enemy satan, and to rebuke it, and not give in or allow that thing to reign in our lives.

It seems a simple concept in theory, but quite difficult in practice. However, we can be more than overcomers in the Lord, if we stay on guard with the Word of God, and the Spirit of God.

Fight the good FIGHT of faith.

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

This analogy sounds good, but it is not practical in the area of our flesh. As long as we are in these human fleshly bodies, our flesh nature is going to try to rise up against the spirit. The flesh nature will not be done away with as long as we are in these earthly corruptible bodies. It will always be warring against the spirit of God within us.

We can overcome, and we can resist the flesh with the Spirit of God, but we must NOT believe that because we have the Spirit of Christ within us that we will not ever have to battle the flesh nature again!!! That is a LIE FROM THE ENEMY! He would seek to have us believe that we have become perfect, and thereby attack us unaware, just when we thought we had won the battle.

Therefore, it is of utmost importance that we realize, as Paul stated, "I fight the good FIGHT of faith" ... it is a fight between the flesh and the spirit that we must constantly be aware of, and recognize we will not be completely released of our flesh nature until the day when our bodies are changed into incorruptible ones.



We can walk each day aware of our flesh nature, knowing that it is desiring to rise up and fight us at any given moment, but with the Spirit of Christ within us, we can recognize the attack, and rebuke it, and thus live overcoming.

BUT we must not think that our flesh nature will be done away with until the day we receive our glorified bodies. We must be on guard against its attack at all times, because it seeks to destroy us, along with the enemy. It is only the Spirit of God living and REIGNING within us that will allows us to fight back against the attack of the enemy, and overcome.

I do not see ANY teaching in the Word of God that shows that the flesh nature will be transformed or destroyed in this earthly body However, the Spirit of the Lord is given to help us recognize, rebuke and submit the flesh nature to the Spirit of God.

Why can we not be free of the carnal/sinful/fallen nature while we are alive on the earth? Jesus was just as much human as us yet He had no sinful nature, Adam and Eve were both human yet they also for a time had no fallen nature. In both of the mentioned instances those referenced had bodies of flesh and were humans just like us (Jesus being 100% man and 100% God at the same time). Is it because God cannot free us from it or is it because He will not free us from it? Both are blasphemous thoughts!

As to us being made perfect (living free of sin) or the possiblity of perfection (living free of sin) while on this earth lets look at what the Bible says on that topic.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Hebrews7
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 13

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

As to the topic of weather or not our sin/carnal/fallen nature can be destroyed while we are yet alive on the earth notice what the Bible says on this topic.

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ephesians 4:22 that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts

Colossians 2:11 in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

1 Peter 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

[KeptByTheWord]

I never said that we can't overcome. Through the spirit of Christ, we can be overcomers, as we recognize the attacks of flesh/sin in our lives. But it doesn't change the fact that the base, sinful nature of our flesh is NOT dead.... it is not completely totally dead! If it were, then we would have glorified bodies as Christ does! We don't have a glorified body yet, and we still have the base sinful nature dwelling within us.

That is why we are admonished to FIGHT the good fight of faith. Why did Paul talk so much about fighting the fight? What fight was he talking about then, if our flesh nature is "dead"?

IF something is dead, why would we be fighting it, as it would be dead?

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

[KeptByTheWord]

If our flesh nature was dead, then why would we put on the armor of warfare?

Ephesians 6:11-18

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

The question is pretty simple, and I think you just don't want to answer the simple question, which is, are you never tempted to sin? Is the nature of your flesh completely dead and never bothers you, and you never have to deal with any temptations or problems with your flesh?

No it wasn't a simple question, because everyone of you seem to keep going on as if no one truly understand what anyone means, as it seems (to me anyway) that every one has a different meaning when they talk about the carnal nature, fleshy nature, spiritual nature, perfection, overcoming sin etc., wherein I've even asked, multiple times I think, what is people definition of these things, which I think was largely ignored.

And no, I'm not a spirit, where all temptation is a blank slate, where there is a void of feeling whatsoever, what I'm saying is that the desire or pull of the temptation is not there, but in its place is either sometimes nothing, or an irritation or sickness, like it is when someone keep trying to give you something that you have absolutely no care for.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Actually, from your statement "And no, I'm not where I want to be, but I'm just continuing on, pressing my way, to be more and more like Jesus." , that pretty much sums up where every honest believer is in their walk with the Lord, and you admit that you have problems, but you are constantly working to keep the Spirit reigning in your life.

What a lot to load on to what I was saying. But anyway I don't think that I've said that once you overcome or die out to sin, that your work is done, that you can just rest, cause nothing will ever affect you again. As long as you walk in the spirit, the Lord will help you and keep you.

When I talk about dying to sin, I'm mainly talking about dying out to your fleshly lusts, your worldly desires, your pride etc., not basic human emotions that isn't really a sin in and of itself, but becomes a sin depending on what you do, and how you handle it, when that emotion comes up.

I don't feel that just because you can get angry, weary, tired, frustrated, discouraged etc., that this somehow negates you from being able to be perfect, holy, and living a life without sin.