Sinful housework

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I never said that we can't overcome. Through the spirit of Christ, we can be overcomers, as we recognize the attacks of flesh/sin in our lives. But it doesn't change the fact that the base, sinful nature of our flesh is NOT dead.... it is not completely totally dead! If it were, then we would have glorified bodies as Christ does! We don't have a glorified body yet, and we still have the base sinful nature dwelling within us.

That is why we are admonished to FIGHT the good fight of faith. Why did Paul talk so much about fighting the fight? What fight was he talking about then, if our flesh nature is "dead"?

IF something is dead, why would we be fighting it, as it would be dead?

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

I agree that we must fight the world and the devil but where in these scriptures is the flesh mentioned?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

If our flesh nature was dead, then why would we put on the armor of warfare?

Ephesians 6:11-18

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Who does this passage continually say we are fighting? No where does the passage say we are fighting the flesh.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Is your flesh nature fully and completely at all times submitted to the spirit of the Lord?

Your fleshly/carnal nature cannot be subject to God and for this reason it must be destroyed.

Romans 8

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

[KeptByTheWord]

Luke,

How does the enemy fight you then, if not through the flesh?

Do you fight a literal satan? are you out there with a sword fighting against a literal physically bodied enemy? I guess that is where the image of the red hooded, fork-wielding scary red demon picture comes from.

Peter pictured him as a raging lion seeking to and fro... have you ever been attacked by a literal raging satanic lion? Again.... I think not....

Or, does satan manifest himself to us through the flesh? The attack from the wicked one comes through our flesh, and our mind. Where does the greatest battle rage in your life... your mind!

So yes, the enemy attacks us through our mind, and our flesh, and that is where the battle rages.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

So... you were as sanctified in behavior, knowledge, and practice the day you were saved as you are now?

If you have ever learned more about what God expects... you're experiencing progressive sanctification. Duh. lol

No the day i got saved i was not sanctified. Salvation deals with actual sin while sanctification deals with original sin. There is a difference between righteousness and holiness. Getting these two different aspects of christianity mixed up causes confusion in the area of sanctification.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

No it wasn't a simple question, because everyone of you seem to keep going on as if no one truly understand what anyone means, as it seems (to me anyway) that every one has a different meaning when they talk about the carnal nature, fleshy nature, spiritual nature, perfection, overcoming sin etc., wherein I've even asked, multiple times I think, what is people definition of these things, which I think was largely ignored.

And no, I'm not a spirit, where all temptation is a blank slate, where there is a void of feeling whatsoever, what I'm saying is that the desire or pull of the temptation is not there, but in its place is either sometimes nothing, or an irritation or sickness, like it is when someone keep trying to give you something that you have absolutely no care for.



What a lot to load on to what I was saying. But anyway I don't think that I've said that once you overcome or die out to sin, that your work is done, that you can just rest, cause nothing will ever affect you again. As long as you walk in the spirit, the Lord will help you and keep you.

When I talk about dying to sin, I'm mainly talking about dying out to your fleshly lusts, your worldly desires, your pride etc., not basic human emotions that isn't really a sin in and of itself, but becomes a sin depending on what you do, and how you handle it, when that emotion comes up.

I don't feel that just because you can get angry, weary, tired, frustrated, discouraged etc., that this somehow negates you from being able to be perfect, holy, and living a life without sin.

I think we are all trying to describe, in different ways, the battle and the fight that Paul pictured in his writings. I can relate to what you are saying. Temptation of certain things doesn't even affect me. But that doesn't mean, I am completely temptation free now. There are other things that pop up, more in the spiritual realm, than physical, to bother me. The Spirit of the Lord checks my spirit many times because of a thought, an idea, a course of action, a word spoken, and so on. Perhaps it is not sin yet, but still... something I can't let rest, but have to move it out of the way because the Spirit of the Lord has corrected me.

So, I think we are basically on the same level, but no doubt using different terminology to say what we are trying to say.

[MarieA27]

Basically if you're dead to sin, you're not walking in sin, you're not living in sin, the pull of sin is not strong, and kind of non existing.

I think KBTW, when you're referring the flesh nature, you're talking about our basic human nature, and that since it can be tempted, we cant be dead to it, correct?

The problem with this is, you're saying that Jesus was never dead to sin, He wasn't perfect, nor was He holy, for the flesh He had on was the same as ours.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Luke,

How does the enemy fight you then, if not through the flesh?

Do you fight a literal satan? are you out there with a sword fighting against a literal physically bodied enemy? I guess that is where the image of the red hooded, fork-wielding scary red demon picture comes from.

Peter pictured him as a raging lion seeking to and fro... have you ever been attacked by a literal raging satanic lion? Again.... I think not....

Or, does satan manifest himself to us through the flesh? The attack from the wicked one comes through our flesh, and our mind. Where does the greatest battle rage in your life... your mind!

So yes, the enemy attacks us through our mind, and our flesh, and that is where the battle rages.

So when Jesus was tempted while on earth did He have a flesh nature to be tempted through as you put it?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Luke

So when Jesus was tempted while on earth did He have a flesh nature to be tempted through as you put it?

Jesus was perfect, and sinless, with a human nature, but yet he was also God. We are told he was tempted in all points as we are, but without sin. He was without sin because he was GOD.

We as believers, have the same flesh nature as Christ, and we have received a *measure* of the spirit of God, but that does NOT make us GOD! We have received the *earnest* of our inheritance, not the full measure.

We will not receive the full inheritance promised to us until we receive our glorified bodies, and it is then when we will be completely and perfectly made into His image.

Until that time, we still have to deal with our fleshly nature, using the Spirit of the Lord to recognize its attacks, and continue on striving for perfection, yet, knowing until we attain our glorified bodies, we cannot rest and say "the work is done".

Instead.... we must continue the FIGHT of faith.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

Basically if you're dead to sin, you're not walking in sin, you're not living in sin, the pull of sin is not strong, and kind of non existing.

I think KBTW, when you're referring the flesh nature, you're talking about our basic human nature, and that since it can be tempted, we cant be dead to it, correct?

The problem with this is, you're saying that Jesus was never dead to sin, He wasn't perfect, nor was He holy, for the flesh He had on was the same as ours.

Jesus is not part of this equation, because remember, HE was also GOD. We are NOT God, we just have a *measure* of the spirit of God or the *earnest* of our inheritance. BIG difference!

We, as believers, will not find a place to rest from the fight against the enemy, our flesh, and sin, until the day we are glorified. That doesn't mean we can't win battles, in fact we should. But we should be aware that just because we've won a battle, doesn't mean the war is over. Our flesh, and the enemy, will always be seeking new ways to tempt, and attack us.

It is a fight, which we must continue, but we CAN be overcomers by the blood of the Lamb, by the Word of God, and by the Spirit of God to recognize the attacks against us.