Sinful housework

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Jesus is not part of this equation, because remember, HE was also GOD. We are NOT God, we just have a *measure* of the spirit of God or the *earnest* of our inheritance. BIG difference!

We, as believers, will not find a place to rest from the fight against the enemy, our flesh, and sin, until the day we are glorified. That doesn't mean we can't win battles, in fact we should. But we should be aware that just because we've won a battle, doesn't mean the war is over. Our flesh, and the enemy, will always be seeking new ways to tempt, and attack us.

It is a fight, which we must continue, but we CAN be overcomers by the blood of the Lamb, by the Word of God, and by the Spirit of God to recognize the attacks against us.

He received the Spirit without measure.

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Jesus is not part of this equation, because remember, HE was also GOD. We are NOT God, we just have a *measure* of the spirit of God or the *earnest* of our inheritance. BIG difference!

We, as believers, will not find a place to rest from the fight against the enemy, our flesh, and sin, until the day we are glorified. That doesn't mean we can't win battles, in fact we should. But we should be aware that just because we've won a battle, doesn't mean the war is over. Our flesh, and the enemy, will always be seeking new ways to tempt, and attack us.

It is a fight, which we must continue, but we CAN be overcomers by the blood of the Lamb, by the Word of God, and by the Spirit of God to recognize the attacks against us.

Yes, Jesus is part of the equation, because when He was in the flesh He was just like us, all the things that you're are saying that we go through, is the exact same thing that Jesus had to deal with, and even worse because He was tempted with everything that the human family deals with.

And those of us that has His spirit are able to live like He did, walk like He walked, the Bible says that He's able to keep us from falling, and present us faultless before Him. If we are faultless does that not mean that we are blameless, that we are perfect?

According to you, then no one will be in heaven and everyone will be condemned to hell, since God commanded us to be holy and perfect and without blame before Him, and again according to you, it is not possible for us to obey God in this, and we're condemned for something that we can't possibly obey.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Luke

I agree that we must fight the world and the devil but where in these scriptures is the flesh mentioned?

1 Cor 9
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Heb 12
1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 12
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

James 4
1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you

1 Peter 2
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

According to you, then no one will be in heaven and everyone will be condemned to hell, since God commanded us to be holy and perfect and without blame before Him, and again according to you, it is not possible for us to obey God in this, and we're condemned for something that we can't possibly obey.

I'm sorry that you seem to think I've come off as saying "no one will be in heaven and everyone will be condemned to hell, since God commanded us to be holy and perfect and without blame before Him, and again according to you, it is not possible for us to obey God in this, and we're condemned for something that we can't possibly obey."

I think you've misunderstood what I've been trying to say. We are in a battle, and we CAN OVERCOME. I have said that clearly. What I am also saying is that, the battle is one that is constantly waging, and warring, but yes, we can overcome with the tools that the Lord has given us! (How can you say it is not!) However, we can be led by the Spirit to recognize attacks when they come, and nip them in the bud, so to speak, so that we CAN lead overcoming lives.

But, we must not be fooled or lulled to sleep thinking that we have been made perfect, and can no longer sin, just because the spirit of the Lord now dwells within us. That is a LIE! We cannot be made perfect until we attain our glorified bodies, but we can fight the good fight of faith, and stand against the attacks of the enemy against us, until the day our last battle is won, and we have been glorified to reign with Christ forever. That is the hope that is set before us!

I do believe that we can live above physical lusts and sins, because of the Spirit in our lives, but we must be aware of the spiritual attacks in our minds that can be just as deadly. Physical sins might include lying, stealing, cheating, adultery, etc. Spiritual sins might include pride, jealousy, envy, murmuring, bitterness, hatred.... etc.... the list goes on and on! Those are spiritual things not always manifested in a physical way, but the Spirit of Christ is able to help us see the things in our heart that aren't pleasing to Him, and help us to root out those things in our hearts.

If we weren't fighting the natures of the flesh, why would we fast? Why would we even pray? Why would we even read our Bibles? For if the spirit simply dwelling in our hearts was enough, we wouldn't need any of those things, right?

If believers were truly perfected upon the entrance of the spirit of the Lord, why then did the writers of the NT spend so much time dealing with spiritual heart issues to each of the churches? Notice they did not spend a lot of time dealing with physical sins, such as lying, cheating, adultery etc., but spent a lot of time dealing with issues of the heart. In fact, Jesus too dealt much more with issues of the heart, than He did with anything else.

So, in essence, my point is this: Our fleshly sinful nature is something we must be aware of, and on guard against its attacks. The Spirit of God, and the Word of God are our tools, and weapons to pinpoint, and show us the things in our hearts not pleasing to Him, so that we can live an overcoming life in the abundant grace and mercy of the Lord. We must fight the good fight of faith, against the enemy that lurks, but by the Spirit of the Lord, we can do this and be victorious.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

1 Cor 9
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Heb 12
1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 12
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

James 4
1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you

1 Peter 2
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from sinful desires, which wage war against your soul.

Thanks for posting these scriptures TGBTG.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

Yes, Jesus is part of the equation, because when He was in the flesh He was just like us, all the things that you're are saying that we go through, is the exact same thing that Jesus had to deal with, and even worse because He was tempted with everything that the human family deals with.

And those of us that has His spirit are able to live like He did, walk like He walked, the Bible says that He's able to keep us from falling, and present us faultless before Him. If we are faultless does that not mean that we are blameless, that we are perfect?

According to you, then no one will be in heaven and everyone will be condemned to hell, since God commanded us to be holy and perfect and without blame before Him, and again according to you, it is not possible for us to obey God in this, and we're condemned for something that we can't possibly obey.

This is the very thing I feel makes this topic so serious. Most DO NOT understand that anyone who is not without spot and blameless is going to be cast into Hell!

So if one KNOWS they DO have some sin in their life or groups of sins should they not be fully focused on repenting and overcoming them? I mean I see this is NOT optional.

Jesus is coming for a Church like this:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25-27

Isnt it right for us to exhort and admonish each other to walk this way?

[MarieA27]

KBTW when Jesus was going through all of that He was considered perfect and without sin, how is it that if, when we go through the same thing, and do the same act as He acted in the same situations are not considered perfect?

Our Lord Jesus fought His flesh and temptations, conquered and overcamed all the way through to the end, and resisted the devil at every turn. And everytime temptations came, He never gave in. If we do the same as He did, we will be perfect.

And IF we happen to fall, we get back up, repent, and if that we are forgiven, by nature of this not being counted against us, we can go on back to being perfect. Just because you have sinned in the past, does not mean you cannot be perfect.

And you still never gave me your definition of what you think being perfect in God means?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarieA27

KBTW when Jesus was going through all of that He was considered perfect and without sin, how is it that if, when we go through the same thing, and do the same act as He acted in the same situations are not considered perfect?

Our Lord Jesus fought His flesh and temptations, conquered and overcamed all the way through to the end, and resisted the devil at every turn. And everytime temptations came, He never gave in. If we do the same as He did, we will be perfect.

And IF we happen to fall, we get back up, repent, and if that we are forgiven, by nature of this not being counted against us, we can go on back to being perfect. Just because you have sinned in the past, does not mean you cannot be perfect.

And you still never gave me your definition of what you think being perfect in God means?

While we're asking questions, let me ask you this... did Jesus ever have to repent? with regards to the context of this statement that you made: "If we do the same as He did, we will be perfect."

This reasoning is not scriptural at all: "If, when we go through the same thing, and do the same act as He acted in the same situations are not considered perfect?" Again, ask yourself the question... did Jesus ever have to repent? Yes, he was tempted and tried as we are, but the difference is, HE WAS WITHOUT SIN. Jesus never had to repent. We can never say that. We were not born with the nature of God, but He was.

I never saw your question where you asked what I think being perfect in God means. It really doesn't matter what I think anyway, it only matters what the Word says.

But since you asked to know what I think being perfect means, I personally think it means to walk before Him as best I possibly can, allowing the spirit of God to transform me and help me to be an overcomer over the weights of sin that would beset me. It is being transparent to the word of God, and allowing myself to be scrutinized by the Spirit of the Lord to weed out, and root out anything in my life that is not producing fruit of the spirit, so that I can live an overcoming life with the spirit and the mind of Christ reigning in me.

That is my simple definition, perhaps not the best one, but the one I see in scripture.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is the very thing I feel makes this topic so serious. Most DO NOT understand that anyone who is not without spot and blameless is going to be cast into Hell!

So if one KNOWS they DO have some sin in their life or groups of sins should they not be fully focused on repenting and overcoming them? I mean I see this is NOT optional.

Jesus is coming for a Church like this:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25-27

Isnt it right for us to exhort and admonish each other to walk this way?

MTD, what is your definition of perfection? Since... questions are being asked

BTW... I agree with what you said above. I think we are on the same page, albeit with perhaps some different terminology.

We must not think too carelessly that once we have the spirit of Christ within us that we are automatically perfected. No, it is a progressive work in motion, and something that we continue to work on.

I don't see perfection as something that happens one day, and then you never have to face any sin, temptations, struggles, or battles again. I just don't see that in scripture.

I do see admonishment to continue the fight of faith though. I do see the overwhelming majority of NT scriptures admonishing believers how to pull off the sin holds in their lives. That is why, I don't believe perfection is a one-time event that happens that we never have to worry about it again. It is an ongoing thing that will not be completed until we attain our glorified bodies.

[Michael The Disciple]

I do believe that we can live above physical lusts and sins, because of the Spirit in our lives, but we must be aware of the spiritual attacks in our minds that can be just as deadly. Physical sins might include lying, stealing, cheating, adultery, etc. Spiritual sins might include pride, jealousy, envy, murmuring, bitterness, hatred.... etc.... the list goes on and on! Those are spiritual things not always manifested in a physical way, but the Spirit of Christ is able to help us see the things in our heart that aren't pleasing to Him, and help us to root out those things in our hearts.

And the reason Jesus dealt with heart issues was so we would be like him. The scriptures bear out that Christians DID walk as Jesus did.

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 Peter 3:1

Apostle Peter believed the people he wrote to had pure minds! He did not assume that no one could attain to that.

Paul also knew Christians who had pure hearts.

Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Tim 2:22

So it was not assumed to be impossible for Christians to have pure hearts and minds!

Matter of fact this is how crucial it really is.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Matt 5:8

Here we see the staggering truth that the false, deceived Pastors of today dare not teach.

Only those who ARE pure in heart are going to be saved!

What a shocking, eye opening truth!

Churches DO NOT teach this. And yet Christ is saying all people who don't have a pure heart are going to be cast into Hell!

Oh friends this should be taught regularly to every Christian. Most surely are not aware of this. Instead the deceived, pathetic ministry of today teaches one cannot attain this. No one can be perfect.

Well to my understanding if one has a pure heart they are perfect before Jesus. Its a fact that most ministers Im aware of fight the truth of scripture concerning what Jesus expects from his bride.

It robs the faith of the saints and gets them right where the devil wants them. Having a mindset that they cannot consistently overcome the flesh. Once that mindset sinks in they see no need to fight and crucify flesh.

Why try? Why put themselves through spiritual warfare if they cannot win the war over the flesh?

Not realizing it IS life and death. It IS Heaven or Hell.

So it is imperative that we not only live this out but that we wake up as many sleeping saints as possible!

Jesus never warned us about false teachers for nothing. Our souls are at stake. Peace and love, Mike