End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

well, wish everyone whether you believe in me or not would pray not only for me but for our endeavor to reach Brazil. My son just called from the jungle area and they are baptizing another whole group of indians...Please pray for their safety and for God to open doors for them...thanks...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Timothy 3:11
"Even so {must their}(not in the original) wives (gunaikas 1135 Women) be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things."


I see, so all of these translations "mistranslated" the passage, just as they did with I Timothy 2:12 ?


New Living Translation
In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.

English Standard Version
Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.

King James Bible
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.

International Standard Version
Their wives must also be serious. They must not be gossips, but instead be stable and trustworthy in everything.

NET Bible
Likewise also their wives must be dignified, not slanderous, temperate, faithful in every respect.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In this way also, the wives should be modest and alert in their minds and shall be faithful in everything and should not be slanderers.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Their wives must also be of good character. They must not be gossips, but they must control their tempers and be trustworthy in every way.

Jubilee Bible 2000
The wives likewise are to be honest, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

King James 2000 Bible
Even so must their wives be serious, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

American King James Version
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

Webster's Bible Translation
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

World English Bible
Their wives in the same way must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.


Now, do you want to know the reason they adopted this rendering? Keep reading the context of the text in the very next verse: "Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households." Here is the actual Greek text: http://biblehub.com/text/1_timothy/3-12.htm


But, isn't it amazing how the Greek nouns for man & woman in I Tim. 2.12 "should be translated" as "husband" & "wife," but just a few verses later they "should be translated" as simply "man" & "woman" as it relates to Deacons - Hmmm, ya' think there might be an agenda going on here ?? You are simply making up your own stuff.



Earlier in this entire passage Paul has not specified maleness but has used words that can address both sexes. Now he addresses women specifically giving requirements for women to be church leaders.


Ummm, specifically where are you (actually another one of your infamous copy-paste jobs) deriving FROM THE BIBLICAL TEXT ITSELF that Paul is giving "requirements for women to be church leaders" ?? In fact, he says just the opposite - Guess we can just make things up as we go along ?


As we are talking about church leadership rather than marriage, the New American Standard translation below for this scripture is more accurate.


I see, despite the next passage - even in the NASB?

"Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households" (NASB).


Not to mention allll of these other translations (that you'll no doubt say they "mistranslated" ):


New Living Translation
In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.

English Standard Version
Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.

King James Bible
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.

International Standard Version
Their wives must also be serious. They must not be gossips, but instead be stable and trustworthy in everything.

NET Bible
Likewise also their wives must be dignified, not slanderous, temperate, faithful in every respect.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In this way also, the wives should be modest and alert in their minds and shall be faithful in everything and should not be slanderers.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Their wives must also be of good character. They must not be gossips, but they must control their tempers and be trustworthy in every way.

Jubilee Bible 2000
The wives likewise are to be honest, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

King James 2000 Bible
Even so must their wives be serious, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

American King James Version
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

Webster's Bible Translation
Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

World English Bible
Their wives in the same way must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.



The context is clearly talking about men - not women in "church leadership" !



The confusion was created by the word gunaikas, which does not differentiate between women or wives.


There is no "confusion" - The texts are crystal-clear. The only confusion is brought about when women desire to operate out of their God-given place!



We notice that Paul’s requirements for women leaders echo male requirements for ministry: Grave/grave, not slanderers/not double tongued, sober/not given to much wine, faithful in all things/not greedy of filthy lucre.


Kinda' left something out didn't ya'?


New International Version
A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.

New Living Translation
A deacon must be faithful to his wife, and he must manage his children and household well.

English Standard Version
Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.

New American Standard Bible
Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.

King James Bible
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Deacons must be husbands of one wife, managing their children and their own households competently.

International Standard Version
Ministers must be husbands of one wife and must manage their children and their families well.

NET Bible
Deacons must be husbands of one wife and good managers of their children and their own households.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
A Minister should be one who has one wife and leads his children and his household well.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
A deacon must have only one wife. Deacons must manage their children and their families well.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Let the deacons be the husbands of only one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

King James 2000 Bible
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

American King James Version
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

American Standard Version
Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Let deacons be the husbands of one wife: who rule well their children, and their own houses.

Darby Bible Translation
Let [the] ministers be husbands of one wife, conducting [their] children and their own houses well:

English Revised Version
Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Webster's Bible Translation
Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children, and their own houses well.

Weymouth New Testament
A deacon must be true to his one wife, and rule his children and his own household wisely and well.



Hmmm, did Paul equally "echo" this for women also ?



New Amer Standard Update, the NAS, RSV, ASV all translate "women" not "wives":


Yes, & each of these translations equally state that a Deacon "must" be a "husband" in the next passage:


American Standard Version
Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

New American Standard Bible
Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.



Further, if you accept these translations in I Timothy 3:12 - will you equally accept their renderings of I Timothy 2:12 (BTW, the only reason they opted for "woman" instead of "wife" is because the next passage makes it crystal-clear that this "woman" is a "wife")?


New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.



So, in the final analysis, you accept their translation of "woman" in I Timothy 3.11 - Then reject their translation of the same Greek noun in I Timothy 2.12?


Yes, you clearly have an agenda going on.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yeah, I don't waste my time with people who have their minds made up.

Right - & God's plainly written Word is what made my mind up .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

well, wish everyone whether you believe in me or not would pray not only for me but for our endeavor to reach Brazil. My son just called from the jungle area and they are baptizing another whole group of indians...Please pray for their safety and for God to open doors for them...thanks...

Will pray for your son .

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

This is the only occurrence of the word in the New Testament (Grenz, 89). It is also another word that is translated in such a way that its main meaning is not obvious in the translation. The normal translation is “helper” or someone who has helped. The basic and most obvious translation of the word is patron or benefactor, and women in this role, are well attested in the Roman world (Dunn, 888). Phoebe was likely another wealthy woman who served the church out of her means as the women in Luke 8 served Jesus out of theirs.Spencer has also suggested that porstatis could be derived from the root verb proistemi, which means to “to stand, place before or over,” or “to help by ruling” The times the verb appears in the New Testament it has the meaning of ruling or governing (Romans 12:8; 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13), and in the Pastoral Epistles both bishops and deacons were to govern their households well. In other Greek sources, such as Josephus, the masculine form of prostatis is used to describe rulers and leaders like Moses, Herod, and Agrippa (Spencer 116). This word could mean that Phoebe was a ruler or another overseer in the church.

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The truth of the matter is a woman should not rule her husband...that is what the original says...

Sis Alvear, I am trying to reconcile your statements above and am having difficulty doing it. Am I reading these posts correctly?

1) Phoebe was a deacon, "and in the Pastoral Epistles both Bishops and Deacons were to govern their households well."

2) "Phoebe was a ruler or another overseer in the church."

If I read these two statements correctly, as a "ruler or another overseer in the church", Phoebe (if married, or if she would ever marry) could not rule her husband (as you stated in the last quote above), yet as a deacon was required to rule her own household well. What a dichotomy! In the same line of thought according to the last quote above, could not rule her husband, but due to her position of authority and being a ruler in the church evidently could rule over other women's husbands. If Phoebe was a minister in training, why wouldn't Paul who acknowledges her in Rom. 16, fail to do so in 1 Tim 3? He could have done so by giving qualifications for her present or potential marital status in 1 Tim. 3:12, by stating a deaconess should be the wife of one husband? And considering verse 15, he is discussing expected behavior in the house of God, would you propose she could not govern her husband at home but could at church?

Why doesn't 1Cor. 4:15 read "mothers" instead of "fathers?"

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The book of Acts church both women and men were put in jails and both women and men that did not get put in jails went everywhere preaching...ACTS 8....


LOL - So silly. We have asked you over & over & over & over & over where this text specifically says women taught men in the church:__________? Guess what? It doesn't - It's more wishful thinking on the part of the "woman-preacher" .



NO where the Bible says a woman cannot preach...


Yes, Sis. Alvear, the Bible very explicitly forbids women "to teach" men "in the church" - You simply refuse to accept what the Scriptures plainly say & say it doesn't mean exactly what it says .




your silence scripture will not work...


LOL - Not "my silence Scripture" - It's God's, for He inspired Paul to write it ! You simply refuse to accept it - all due to your self-will in the face of Scripture.


you know it was a question that Paul answered....


Say What???? How silly ! He said his writings to the Corinthian church was the "commandment of the Lord." Lemme' give you a lil' hint here, when Paul prefaces his remarks in Corinth with "Now concerning the things you wrote" (e.g., I Cor. 7.1) - then he's responding to a question....where does he say this anywhere close to chapter 14:____________?


Good grief, have you no fear of God to just make things up like this??



He spent so much time telling me and all women how to dress and how to use the gift of prophecy to say be silent in church.


Hmmm, thought I read this somewhere in the Pauline corpus:

"Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says."


Lemme' guess - another "mistranslation" 'eh ?




for he himself said prophecy is to be given in the church... Have you forgotten Philip’s Prophesying Daughters? Have you so soon forgotten what prophecy is?


No, I haven't "forgotten" what biblical prophecy is - but you apparently never knew! Prophecy is N-O-T a sermon from the Scriptures & never will be. Shall I post Dr. Thayer's lexical definition of prophecy again (only to be completely ignored of course )?


Have you forgotten WHERE it is to be given? Have you forgotten what prophecy is? One thing is to EDIFY the church....Let me remind you..the word edify according to the dictionary means :ed·i·fy (ĕd′ə-fī′)
tr.v. ed·i·fied, ed·i·fy·ing, ed·i·fies
To instruct especially so as to encourage intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement.



Have you forgotten that Paul is specifically addressing the gifts of the Spirit in chpp. 12-14? Let me remind YOU that Paul is not at all addressing pre-meditated sermons as some women do today in the churches (to their "shame") & you're advocating.


So you have admited you believe a woman can prophecy...so that means she can instruct....The gift of prophecy edifies, exhorts, and comforts (I Corinthians 14:3);


Umm, of course a woman can "prophesy" - what is there to "admit" ? But, for about the 20th time now, the gift of "prophecy" is not, nor has it ever been, an exposition from the Scriptural canon. You're willfully misunderstanding the meaning of the Greek verb - & this has been pointed out to you by several others over & over & over & over & over & over .



Even in the old testament we have Miriam, Aaron and Moses. They were three siblings. All three children were Prophets. God himself spoke to all Israel telling them He had put before them these three to lead them..For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee the house of bondage, and I sent before you Moses, Aaron and Miriam. Micah 6:4 This shows the authoritative, highly influential leadership role she exercised.Miriam was a prophet.


And specifically where is it recorded that Miriam exposited from Scripture to the congregation of Israel:___________? Hmmm, seems like I remember a certain class following her - who was that - O', wait - I found it:


"Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took the timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dancing."




The Hebrew word used here for “prophetess” is ‘nebiah.’ Nebiah is the feminine of ‘nabi’ which means: “a spokesman, speaker, prophet. Nebiah is used six (6) times in the Old Testament as prophetess.


Yet the NT Greek noun translated "Elders" is always in the masculine & never in the feminine! Will you be consistent in your gender-appeals (won't hold my breath)?



The Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament says the word prophesy means: proclaim God’s message, preach; prophesy, predict…An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Lexicon says prophesy means: in N.T. to expound scripture, to speak and preach under the influence of the Holy Spirit.


Watch how easy this is Sis.: No, in neither the OT nor NT does prophecy define as "to expound Scripture" & we would like to see one-single example of this "in the NT":___________? Your source is wrong - else we should be able to find support for their assertion "in the NT" (their own words) !


The Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon writes this about the word prophesy: to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation. To break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels. Like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others.


First, it's Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon that Strong's is quoting. Here's the full quote:


"to prophesy, i. e. to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspiration; to predict (Herodotus, Pindar, Euripides, Plato, Plutarch, others);

a. universally, Matthew 7:22.

b. with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining especially to the kingdom of God: Matthew 11:13; Acts 2:17, 18; Acts 21:9; περί τίνος, Matthew 15:7; Mark 7:6; 1 Peter 1:10; ἐπί τίνι, over i. e. concerning one (see ἐπί, B. 2 f. β'., p. 234a), Revelation 10:11; εἰς τινα (i. e. Christ), the Epistle of Barnabas 5, 6 [ET]; προφητεύειν followed by λέγων, with the words uttered by the prophet, Jude 1:14; followed by ὅτι, John 11:51.

c. to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation: Matthew 26:68; Mark 14:65; Luke 22:64, cf. 7:39; John 4:19.

d. to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or in praise of the divine counsels: Luke 1:67; Acts 19:6 (1 Samuel 10:10, 11; 1 Samuel 19:20, 21, etc.); — or, under the like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others (see προφήτης, II. 1 f.), 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 13:9; 1 Corinthians 14:1, 3, 4, 5, 24, 31, 39."


I must've overlooked something here?? I did not see one-single thing about preaching-teaching from the Scriptures ??


At root, biblical "prophecy" denotes an instantaneous revealing of the hidden realm in foretelling (primary meaning) or forth-telling (secondary meaning) - regardless, both are done by the spontaneous movings of God's Spirit - & NOT a "sermon from the Scriptures" !


A lot of people will say but she made a mistake...and failed at one point...that was NOT because she was a woman but because she was human...God disciplined her just as he did Moses & David, when they failed....

And precisely how does this in any way, shape or form erase with the clear following instructions to the NT church?


Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.


11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.


Still there Sis. - & will be even after you're finished dancing all over it !

[Roxanne Murphy]

Sister Alvear, bless you for your years of labor in the harvest. The Lord of the Harvest Who called you to serve Him is faithful as you know, and you know this personally because of your relationship with Him. There are going to be a lot of souls at Judgment Day who will be eternally thankful that you were obedient to the call of God on your life.
I believe you know that you do not have to justify yourself to anyone but Him, and you most certainly do not need to justify yourself to a man who is supposedly a Biblical scholar (by his own acclamation), yet he is not "man enough" to put his real name to his posts. And it seems to me he is so busy trying to force the world into his box that the true mission of the church, Matthew 28:18-20, is sidelined.

[Roxanne Murphy]

I find the story of King Josiah and Huldah the prophetess quite enlightening on this topic of women preachers:
Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. And the king commanded Hilkiah, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king's, saying, Go, enquire of the Lord for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the Lord that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the Lord, to do after all that is written in this book. And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they spake to her to that effect. And she answered them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Tell ye the man that sent you to me, Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah: Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched. And as for the king of Judah, who sent you to enquire of the Lord, so shall ye say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel concerning the words which thou hast heard; Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before me; I have even heard thee also, saith the Lord. Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again. (2 Chronicles 34:18-28 KJV)
The king sent a small group of male elders, including a priest, to get instruction (counsel, teaching, divine instruction), from a prophetess. Just to keep things simple, a prophetess is the feminine form of a prophet. And we find that the office of prophet is listed second in the five fold ministry list in Ephesians 4.
Why did Josiah not have Hilkiah the priest give him instruction? According to the theology of the initial dude who posts on blue, that is what should have happened. And, if women are not to teach men (again, per the rdp doctrine, not scripture), how was this married lady Kenyan to be a prophetess and why was there not a prophet, a man, to proclaim thus saith the LORD and be there to give instruction to the king and the elders he sent for answers? Surely God would have made sure that the messenger He provided was in line with rev. rdp's theology . Surely God knew that the entirety of His holy Word would one day be 'forced' to comply with a man's personal love affair with two verses of scripture.
And then, most scandalous of all, that woman's preaching resulted in a revival!
Then the king sent and gathered together all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem. And the king went up into the house of the Lord, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant that was found in the house of the Lord. And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the Lord, to walk after the Lord, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book. And he caused all that were present in Jerusalem and Benjamin to stand to it. And the inhabitants of Jerusalem did according to the covenant of God, the God of their fathers. And Josiah took away all the abominations out of all the countries that pertained to the children of Israel, and made all that were present in Israel to serve, even to serve the Lord their God. And all his days they departed not from following the Lord, the God of their fathers. (2 Chronicles 34:29-33 KJV).

[Sister Alvear]

Thank you for such kind words. My work has been such a pleasure and such a joy. I have never lost the wonder He called me to be a missionary.
Yesterday was a very hard tiring day but so rewarding as 52 students received their certificates. We not only had graduation but as we sang some of them in their gowns and all broke out dancing and rejoicing. If you go to my facebook you can see some of the pictures. Then cooked for them and left food cooked to be sent out to shanty town today. Right after all this Bro. Alvear and I caught the plane...flew all night (as we had a layover) Got in south central Brazil this morning and he preachs a special service tonight.
Bro. Alvear does not have the time to do what I do as he more important things to do but he appreciates that I love to help our people. Many do not know how to read or write however it is my joy to help them and then teach them Bible principles.
We have a full schedule. The young people here have a special service here Sunday night and asked me to tell my life story. Brother Alvear will be preaching at another one of our churches. God is good....

[rdp]

LOL - & specifically where can we read in the biblical text that Huldah expounded from the very Scriptures that was brought to her Roxanne:__________? Surely you will be able to demonstrate this from the biblical witness with all of your scorn & ridicule 'eh ? Patiently waiting.....



Big hint: Huldah, nor any other woman ever ONCE expounds from Scripture to men - even she. The very text is brought to her !? Huldah did what a prophetess does - instantaneously revealed God's intents for Josiah (a figure I have studied very much about) - not "preached them a sermon."


Funny thing is, Josiah simply read the scroll & took it at face value for what it said - & God honored him for it! You ought to try that in I Tim. 2:11-3.15 !



More mere swatting at something that's simply not there - all the while explaining away what IS in the Bible. Way to go AFF !