You are laughing because you think that simply by calling someone a Disciple they are saved? We are not saved until the end.
I John 2:24-27 speaks of Him that abides in us, the anointing that abides in us must remain as with it, it is the promise He has given which gives us eternal life.
We know it (the Holy Spirit of promise) as the "earnest of our inheritance". Ephesians 1:13-14
So, you're not saved?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I believe that if God came back today I am saved. But, will I be in 10 years? I hope so, but what if I become weary in well doing? I have been there before and God helped me through it. I know what it feels like to think you don't care anymore. And I know what all is involved in getting back on your feet again. You sure don't forget that process in a hurry.
We are instructed to remain "diligent/make an effort" (2 Peter 3:14)
Great understanding, explanation, and defense of the faith Pressing-On! My soul is encouraged, may God bless you and your family in these last days.
__________________ Matthew 24:13-14 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
This is why some believe that there is a separation/difference between salvation at repentance and believing and a later empowering of the the Holy Ghost, IE tongues as an external manifistation.
I can show you where Cornelius was devout, prayed always, fasted, was charitable, saw an angel in a vision who knew and spoke his name, and still was not saved. Acts 11:14-17. The only difference between the early verses of Acts 10 and the later verses of Acts 10 was Cornelius received the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and was baptized in Jesus name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp
One could also read this as they hadn't heard of the empowerment of being filled with the Holy Ghost. Paul never stated they weren't saved. He did however pray for them that they too could receive a greater blessing that had been experienced by others.
Neither did he say they were saved. He knew that if they had believed on Him as the scripture hath said, out of their bellies SHALL flow rivers of living water, this was spoken of the Spirit. St John 7:38-39. In other words, if they believed as the scripture teaches they should have received the Holy Ghost, which was indeed his question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by obriencp
Most OPs cannot separate tongues from salvation, or water from salvation. If you separate tongues from salvation, it's not so hard to see how one could be saved long before they ever speak in tongues. Acts traces the spread of the church and outpouring of the Holy Ghost. The experience of tongues was to prove to the apostles that God was not a respector of persons and that all could be saved under this new covenant.
On a separate note... we love to throw out verses that connect baptism to salvation. How many more verses connect believing/faith to salvation or having life? Now i expect people to counter this with James ch 2 to bolster the claim that faith and repentance alone cannot bring salvation.
The facts are, that Bible believing or Bible faith is not mere acknowledgment or assent, faith produces action. Believeth and is baptized Mark 16:16, cometh to God must believe that he is and is a rewarder of them that DILIGENTLY SEEK Him Heb 11:6, believing is obedience Rom 10:17, faith without works is dead being alone, as the body without the spirit is dead faith without works is dead also, James 2.
It's so simple. A direct question was asked in the bible and a direct answer was given.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Now folks want to complicate it by you have to blah blah blah and then you have to blah blah blah blah and then you might be saved.
What must I do to be saved? (See answer above) And forget about a lot of jumping through the hoops of the hundreds of salvation plans out there.
It's so simple. A direct question was asked in the bible and a direct answer was given.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Now folks want to complicate it by you have to blah blah blah and then you have to blah blah blah blah and then you might be saved.
What must I do to be saved? (See answer above) And forget about a lot of jumping through the hoops of the hundreds of salvation plans out there.
You do realize that this is the same situation found in Acts 2?
What were they suppose to believe first and foremost? They were to believe this - "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
After the men "heard" and believed this, in verse 38, they asked what they must do?
So, no, the scripture never implies that belief is all there is to salvation. It is what we must do to proceed. We first must believe in who He is and what He came to do. If this is taught properly, people will seek the Giver and not the Gift.
Peter allows them to proceed - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." (Acts 2:38-40)
Let me come back to add that in the Apostles' Day, the revelation of Jesus Christ was a huge issue and a wonderful revelation. That is why they weren't walking around talking about speaking in tongues every moment. The Gift fell on those that believed. Today, we are seeking the Gift more than the Giver. We know who Jesus Christ is, and we aren't as interested in that fact as we are in speaking in tongues. So, we focus on tongues more, which is a travesty, IMO.
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Last edited by Pressing-On; 03-07-2014 at 12:28 PM.
You do realize that this is the same situation found in Acts 2?
What were they suppose to believe first and foremost? They were to believe this - "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Acts 2:36
After the men "heard" and believed this, in verse 38, they asked what they must do?
So, no, the scripture never implies that belief is all there is to salvation. It is what we must do to proceed. We first must believe in who He is and what He came to do. If this is taught properly, people will seek the Giver and not the Gift.
Peter allows them to proceed - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." (Acts 2:38-40)
Let me come back to add that in the Apostles' Day, the revelation of Jesus Christ was a huge issue and a wonderful revelation. That is why they weren't walking around talking about speaking in tongues every moment. The Gift fell on those that believed. Today, we are seeking the Gift more than the Giver. We know who Jesus Christ is, and we aren't as interested in that fact as we are in speaking in tongues. So, we focus on tongues more, which is a travesty, IMO.
As I pointed out earlier, folks want to make it complicated. Why don't folks just stick with the simple answer?
It's so simple. A direct question was asked in the bible and a direct answer was given.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Now folks want to complicate it by you have to blah blah blah and then you have to blah blah blah blah and then you might be saved.
What must I do to be saved? (See answer above) And forget about a lot of jumping through the hoops of the hundreds of salvation plans out there.
Did you forget to quote the rest of the scriptures about the jailer and all his household?
"Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes.And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."
Paul himself was converted by the laying on of hands by the disciple Ananias and filled with the Holy Spirit, then he was immediately baptized in water. If that's what he did in order to be saved or enter the kingdom of God, why would he preach anything different?
"And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized."
__________________ Matthew 24:13-14 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."
"Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes.And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."
Paul himself was converted by the laying on of hands by the disciple Ananias and filled with the Holy Spirit, then he was immediately baptized in water. If that's what he did in order to be saved or enter the kingdom of God, why would he preach anything different?
"And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized."
"Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes.And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."
Paul himself was converted by the laying on of hands by the disciple Ananias and filled with the Holy Spirit, then he was immediately baptized in water. If that's what he did in order to be saved or enter the kingdom of God, why would he preach anything different?
"And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized."
TyronePalmer 
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