Holinisness is not....

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The entire NT is full of references with regards to overcoming the still carnal nature of the flesh. One need not only refer to Romans 7. However, with reference to Romans 7, the tense of the words speak of a present battle. Romans 8 shows us how to overcome the still carnal nature of the flesh... we overcome it by consciously walking in the Spirit. If we are in the Spirit, we will overcome the deeds (desires) of the still fallen and carnal flesh. You can't "overcome" or "mortify" something that was "destroyed". If it's "destroyed" in the sense that you're using the term, it's gone. Nothing to overcome. Nothing to mortify. Nothing to chose against.

Please do a comparison with me of terms in romans 7 and in romans 8

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Notice in chapter 7 Paul speaks of captivity and desireing to be delivered from a body of death and from a law of sin. Now lets move to chapter 8.

Romans 8: 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Here is the awesome glorious blessed promise of freedom (one of many).

If some was a captive and now have been made free this speaks of entire freedom not partial. What person who is bound in chains would consider themselves from their chains if they were allowed to simply have the chains removed from your foot? No freedom would be to have all the chains removed.

I also listed vrs 3 to show what is spoken of here is not a mere process but rather perfection. Notice that it is specificly speaks of the fact that there was something that the law could not do but the coming death and ressurection of Jesus could. This same terminolgy is used in Hebrews 7.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Perfection was the aim and goal of the Jesus coming to earth and dying for us it was so that the fall could be countered the poison removed the disease of sin removed.

Hebrews 711 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?:
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 9:9
which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


Hebrews 10:1
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's why we must understand the old nature being destroyed categorically. With regards to the human "spirit", the born again believer's inner man is regenerated. The fallen nature of the spirit is no longer present. Instead, the human spirit of the born again believer is cleansed, purified. The old nature of the fallen human spirit is now destroyed by the presence of the Holy Spirit. On the level of the spirit, the believer is now freely partaking in the divine nature through grace.

The flesh (physical biological aspect of man) is not glorified or regenerated yet. Neither is the mind of the soul, which must be renewed through prayer, study, fasting, meditation, and surrender.

You are falling into a trap of saying that our spirit can be holy while our bodies are sinful. This is not possible nor is it ever taught in scripture.

1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Notice it is not just a promise for a clean spirit and soul but the body/flesh can be cleansed.

Originally Posted by Aquila

One must think categorically. I'd like to see chapter and verse.

Romans 6:6
knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The word destroyed here means:

I.to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

A.to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency

B.to deprive of force, influence, power

II.to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

A.to cease, to pass away, be done away

B.to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one

C.to terminate all intercourse with one

Originally Posted by Aquila

If the carnal nature is absolutely destroyed... it would be impossible to fall into sin. It would be against our nature because it wouldn't be in our nature. You have an ontological failure here.

Not true Adam Eveand the Angels all were created free from a fallen nature but they were all tempted and fell.

Originally Posted by Aquila

If the very seed (nature) of a weed isn't present, there will be no weeds to weed up. The very fact that there are weeds to weed up establishes that the very seed (nature) of the weed exists in the garden.

New weed seeds can be blown by the wind dropped by birds or planted by enemies thus constant vigilance is needed.