Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Never looked at the 'queen' James version. Your book says that's an abomination. Did you read that part?

...Waiting to read something sensible here.

Was using the literal translation. Literal translation says messenger.

Everyone knows ANGEL means MESSENGER. That changes nothing to make your argument being correct. Who cares what version we read? They all give the same point.

I was making fun of you when I said that the book doesn't say how many alphas and omegas there are. Know why? Let me summarize your logic.

You brought up Rev 22 I did not.

I brought up the references to the Alpha and Omega, in Rev 1. You will not respond to that. It is MY FULL REASON for proving Jesus is God.

John is writing about a messenger that he is standing with. You said that the messenger was not Jesus 3 posts back because John starts to worship him and the messenger says (verse 8-9) "do not bow to me bow to God". Let's review.

22:8 And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things

Rev 22:9 and he saith to me, `See -- not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.'

Then the same messenger in verse 13 says:

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last.

No it is not the same messenger. lol. Prove to me it is the same messenger. I showed you scholars' explanations of the reference to the angel/messenger, and all of them agree the angel/messenger is one of the many angels/messengers such as the ones I showed you were one of the seven angels/messengers came to John.

So you come back and say: "I am the Alpha and Omega" means "I am God" and this is your basis for concluding "Jesus is God" but 4 verses up in the same chapter John is specifically advised not to do this.

John was NOT TALKING TO JESUS when the angel was speaking to him. You have this so confused it is really weird. Like I said, show me one witness from a scholar's writings to prove the MESSENGER is Jesus in Revelation 1. You cannot just make these things up and expect everyone to agree with you just because you say it is so.

So yes, I am making fun of your logic. Whatever "Alpha and Omega" mean, the same "Alpha and Omega" said "I am a fellow servant of you and your brethren the prophets and you need to bow before God, not me" and what makes it really funny is that it was said only (4) verses before your "great God insight".

No, the ALPHA AND OMEGA never said such a thing.

You want to know who the messenger angel of Rev 22 is? You havbe to go back to chapter 21 to see the specific angel who was sent. And look what he is called:

Rev 21:9 KJV And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

As to hot potatoes I would guess that chapter 5 is one since you are avoiding that question like one.

Chapter 5 is an issue altogether apart from the issue I raised. Now, since I raised the issue of the Alpha and Omega in Rev 1 CALLING HIMSELF THE ALMIGHTY as my main argument, I am talking about the Alpha and Omega in Rev 1 CALLING HIMSELF THE ALMIGHTY. THAT IS MY ARGUMENT.

You refuse to deal with it. You have not yet dealt with the Alpha and Omega saying He is the ALMIGHTY!

So read it again.

Why is the Alpha and Omega shown to call Himself the ALMIGHTY and then call Himself the one who died and is alive?

If your bible was good enough for you then you would not need Adam Clark or John Gill or Albert Barnes to explain it. The words explain themselves. You need to go back and tell Adam Clark and John Gill and Albert Barnes that Jesus said:

I know the words explain themselves. lol. I am just showing you that NO ONE AGREES WITH YOUR READING TREND to say the ANGEL is Jesus in Rev 1. I gave evidence to show you that others agree with me. I did not get my belief about it from those writers, but showed you that they claimed that what I also see is what they saw.

18 `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,

19 and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

and then consider these words for yourself? Nobody here asked "what do you think it says" - the question was what does it say

The LAMB took a scroll from the right hand of God on the throne. The LAMB was not on the throne. Was this Jesus or not? Answer?

When are you going to talk about the ALpha and Omega calling Himself ALMIGHTY? That was my argument. You have yet to disprove it. How many days now have you failed to respond to my main argument.

Everything else can be explained AFTER we deal with this point, I promise. BUT THIS POINT is my main argument. Stop playing here and deal with it.