Water/Spirit Doctrine Destroyed Beautifully

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Sean

We love you too our unborn brother(stuck in the birth canal)....LOL


FYI....that's somebody conceived(born) by the Spirit but not yet born again of the water through baptism.

i think you got that backwards... babies are surrounded by water first then breath. If he's stuck in the "birth canal" he doesn't have spirit.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by obriencp

at least it seems someone understood my posts.

Yea, why some dont understand the problem with believing in 4 births is beyond me.

[TJJJ]

Except you are born again you will die lost.

Acts 2:38 is a necessity.

Anything less is not enough.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

1)- No one before Zwingli ever taught that water baptism was the "works of man".

2)- Since cognition involves the firing of neurons in the brain, the very act of the mind thinking about faith and exercising faith would then be categorized as physical activity and therefore, by your own definition above, be considered "works".

I keep telling people, Luther believed it was necessary.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by obriencp

i think you got that backwards... babies are surrounded by water first then breath. If he's stuck in the "birth canal" he doesn't have spirit.

They are not born until they exit the womb.

Spiritually speaking....Conceived in the womb by the Spirit and refuses to be baptized...Not finished being reborn.

Just doesnt want to be born thats all... POOR MAMA must be annoyed....LOL

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

They are not born until they exit the womb.

Spiritually speaking....Conceived in the womb by the Spirit and refuses to be baptized...Not finished being reborn.

Just doesnt want to be born thats all... POOR MAMA must be annoyed....LOL

Except jesus calls them born...

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yea, why some dont understand the problem with believing in 4 births is beyond me.

Actually, as you know, it's only TWO births with each birth containing TWO elements, water and spirit.... both times.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Taken from the following site:

http://www.bereanresearchinstitute.c...spel_True.html

"1. The United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) adds to the simplicity of the Gospel of Salvation that is taught by Jesus Christ - and that is in Jesus Christ (II Cor 11:2-4) - by teaching that, to be born again, a person must do certain physical acts, namely:
a. Be baptized in water (which they claim is burial in Christ), and

Scripture claims this: "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."--Romans 6:3-4

b. Speak in tongues (which they claim is proof of resurrection in the Spirit)

Resurrection in the Spirit? I think that it is a sign that you have been filled by the Spirit. "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." --Acts 2:4

2. Note that Eph 2:8,9 refutes this doctrine of 'works' salvation. (There is nothing that a person can 'do' physically to be saved. One must only 'do' non-physical things - i.e. repent from sin and surrender the heart to God. Salvation pertains to the state of the heart; not to that of the body. That is one reason why we cannot be saved by our works.)

Faith is demonstrated by works.

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works:shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" --James 2:16-20

3. Therefore, these doctrines taught by UPCI can become an offence to those who might otherwise be interested in Salvation, but who are offended by the "additional requirements" - namely water baptism and tongues-speaking - (Matt 18:6; Mark 9:42; I Cor 10:32), which the UPCI consider to be essential and integral parts of Salvation and not mere "additions" to it at all.

The question for me isn't whether a repentant sinner is "offended" by the suggestion of water baptism and being filled with the Spirit; the question for me is, "Why would anyone want to forbid water for baptism or refrain from laying hands on someone so they can be filled with the Holy Ghost?" What kind of person wants to deny baptism or spirit-infilling? Those who deliberately withhold those God-given experiences from new believers are in danger from Him, IMHO. It isn't our job to experiment with the possibility that people can be saved without any of the works that were taught and practiced in scripture. It is our job to follow scripture. Hearers and doers. Believers and keepers. Faith demonstrated by works. Like it or not, scripture pairs the two together from the OT all the way through the NT.

4. It is important that we don't change the word of God (Deut 4:2; Prov 30:6; Rev 22:18, Acts 15:5), that we don't receive another spirit (I John 4:1; II Cor 11:4), and that we don't offend others away from the truth (in this case by adding extra requirements to the true gospel.) (Matt 18:6)

Sometimes people are offended by truth itself, and their rejection of truth is what inhibits their freedom. It's the truth that makes people free. Sometimes they are only "almost persuaded." We shouldn't reshape the Gospel to suit people who really aren't ready for what God requires of them. He does require something of us-salvation isn't truly free. Grace is free; salvation isn't. Salvation requires a response and obedience. We become free of sin, and then we become the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:18)

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Scripture claims this: "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."--Romans 6:3-4



Resurrection in the Spirit? I think that it is a sign that you have been filled by the Spirit. "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." --Acts 2:4



Faith is demonstrated by works.

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works:shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" --James 2:16-20



The question for me isn't whether a repentant sinner is "offended" by the suggestion of water baptism and being filled with the Spirit; the question for me is, "Why would anyone want to forbid water for baptism or refrain from laying hands on someone so they can be filled with the Holy Ghost?" What kind of person wants to deny baptism or spirit-infilling? Those who deliberately withhold those God-given experiences from new believers are in danger from Him, IMHO. It isn't our job to experiment with the possibility that people can be saved without any of the works that were taught and practiced in scripture. It is our job to follow scripture. Hearers and doers. Believers and keepers. Faith demonstrated by works. Like it or not, scripture pairs the two together from the OT all the way through the NT.



Sometimes people are offended by truth itself, and their rejection of truth is what inhibits their freedom. It's the truth that makes people free. Sometimes they are only "almost persuaded." We shouldn't reshape the Gospel to suit people who really aren't ready for what God requires of them. He does require something of us-salvation isn't truly free. Grace is free; salvation isn't. Salvation requires a response and obedience. We become free of sin, and then we become the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:18)

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Amazing how backslid preachers have such insights into truth.

What makes you better than the next guy?