All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Sean

Jason, the book of Romans was NOT written to sinners....It was written to those that were already saved. Sinners must experience Acts before they can even think of applying the book of Romans or ANY of the epistles to their lives for that matter.

This premise that I have showed you right here is EXACTLY why and how folks have come up with an alternative plan of salvation....simply this happened....you ready.....THEY SKIPPED ACTS!!!

Sean I like you but this answer is so lame. I can't tell you how many times oneness people use it. The fact is that just because Paul was writing to saints doesn't mean they fully understood salvation and under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost he wrote Romans which turns out to be the closest thing to a systematic theology we have in the Bible. And as Paul explained salvation (beginning in chapter 1 through 11). Note there is no mention of tongues in Paul's soteriology.

Also note Romans was written long before Acts. That Paul and Luke were fellow labourers and that Luke very likely had the same soteriology as Paul hearing Paul preach many times (probably being converted by Paul at Antioch) and unlimited private discussion. Luke never hints that he ever spoke in tongues, makes no mention of tongues in His gospel, and while recording the history if the church does note the supernatural phenomena of tongues in Acts 2,8*,10, and 19). (*I'm granting Acts 8 implies tongues). Acts 2 isn't a conversion experience but is the coming if the Spirit on the Jews, 8 the Samaritans, 10 the Gentiles, 19 the followers of John the Baptist (distinct from Christ's disciples, see Mark 2:18). Out of 21 conversions in Acts however tongues are only mention 2 or 3* timed. In the rest of the conversions tongues are not even hinted at or suggested including Acts 2:41 which tells us 3,000 people were added to the church that day- how? Being baptized. There no suggestion at all the spoke in tongues, neither any suggestion that the 5,000 of Acts 4:4 spoke in tongues. And certainly if you study all of the sermons in Acts and all of the conversions you will note tongues are not emphasized, mentioned, or expected with the possible exceptions of Acts 8 & 19.

Furthermore 1 Corinthians was written long before Acts and its quite likely Luke believed tongues to be a spiritual gift as described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12, but not the universal initial evidence as no one believed this until the 20th century.

Even church history tells us this is not the normative conversion experience though the early church did have the gift if tongues and prophecy in operations. (I know people say we do too and maybe so but all I've ever seen is tongues with a very generic interpretation, or tongues then interpreted by the one who gave the message-which isn't biblical, but I suppose the sign gifts are yet another topic).

Its simply not an accurate conclusion to suggest people who use Romans to understand/explain soteriology skipped Acts. Not at all.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Sean

Bro., no matter how you try to defend this....the Holy Ghost does not remit sins. ONLY water baptism does

Then how could Cornelius's household receive the Holy Ghost while still in their sins?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bitter lol. I'm posting under my real name, check out my Facebook page. I'm enjoying life and serving God. I'm tremendously happy in my church, my family, my job, and above all in my relationship with Christ which has grown exponentially in the last 4 years. You guys always have to play the bitter card because its the only card in your deck. You guys hate to see that people escape your phony phariseeic interpretation of Christianity and their families and lives don't fall apart, and they thrive in another church, and enjoy life. While you guys preach against everything except clean air. Ironically I think the bitter shoe is on the other side. Some of you guys are bitter at the freedom we enjoy while you all live in bondage. It doesn't have to be that way, quit working for salvation. Jesus did the work, its completed, rest in Him.

Bump. You guys hate to see someone leave your sect but then thrive and grow in relationship with Jesus Christ outside of your movement. This is what makes some of you (esp AN) bitter isn't it? You live under the burden of a performance based religion and hate when people find true freedom in Christ. Y'all want to tell the stories of someone leaving the church the family gets divorced the kids are on drugs and pregnant and they life is a total mess. Some OP preachers rejoice in that proclaiming them "trophied of hell".

Well I'm here to say that there is abundant life in Christ outside of the UPC and it is fantastic!

[Abiding Now]

2Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Thess 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bump. You guys hate to see someone leave your sect but then thrive and grow in relationship with Jesus Christ outside of your movement. This is what makes some of you (esp AN) bitter isn't it? You live under the burden of a performance based religion and hate when people find true freedom in Christ. Y'all want to tell the stories of someone leaving the church the family gets divorced the kids are on drugs and pregnant and they life is a total mess. Some OP preachers rejoice in that proclaiming them "trophied of hell".

Well I'm here to say that there is abundant life in Christ outside of the UPC and it is fantastic!

What often causes problems is that since the UPCI is the biggest kid in the block, it thinks it can bully the rest of us Apostolics from other groups.

The UPC ministers know that there are other oneness Apostolics outside their walls, but often keep their members in ignorance by ignoring the other Apostolics.
If they do happen to acknowledge them at all, they usually resort to the lie (yes it is a lie) that those groups do not believe in holiness.

Translation: Those groups do not define holiness like we do, therefore they do not believe in holiness.

It is the bullies ultra con of the UPCI who give a bad name to the rest of us Apostolics.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bump. You guys hate to see someone leave your sect but then thrive and grow in relationship with Jesus Christ outside of your movement. This is what makes some of you (esp AN) bitter isn't it? You live under the burden of a performance based religion and hate when people find true freedom in Christ. Y'all want to tell the stories of someone leaving the church the family gets divorced the kids are on drugs and pregnant and they life is a total mess. Some OP preachers rejoice in that proclaiming them "trophied of hell".

Well I'm here to say that there is abundant life in Christ outside of the UPC and it is fantastic!

1Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

1Tim 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

1Tim 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

What often causes problems is that since the UPCI is the biggest kid in the block, it thinks it can bully the rest of us Apostolics from other groups.

The UPC ministers know that there are other oneness Apostolics outside their walls, but often keep their members in ignorance by ignoring the other Apostolics.
If they do happen to acknowledge them at all, they usually resort to the lie (yes it is a lie) that those groups do not believe in holiness.

Translation: Those groups do not define holiness like we do, therefore they do not believe in holiness.

It is the bullies ultra con of the UPCI who give a bad name to the rest of us Apostolics.

Oxymoron.

[Abiding Now]

Heard the Sunday school kids singing "This Little Light of Mine" and wept for people that I will never meet. I wept for those people that will be lost because a person baptized in Jesus name hides their Light under a bushel. Water baptism was a wonderful experience for them, but because of things in their life that has led them away from the revelation of the power of the saving name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), they minimize the necessity of water baptism to a hungry heart. God have mercy.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Right! That is why Peter COMMANDED the gentiles to get baptized in Jesus' name after they already had the Spirit.

I believe you have that incorrect. Peter commanded the Jews that were with him to baptize the Gentiles. Note that he says can any forbid water? Also note that he was confronted by other believers in Acts 11 for going to the Gentiles and how he had to go over all that happened before they were satisfied that all was well. Gentiles were considered dogs in the site of Jews.

Again, seeing this in no way minimizes that water baptism is important.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Then how could Cornelius's household receive the Holy Ghost while still in their sins?

Who said you could not get the Holy Ghost while in sins? Where did that ever come from?