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Originally Posted by ILG
All principles made into rules by men who want to measure and judge who is following principles and who is not. And yet, the bible says judge not lest ye be judged.
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Sis, you can't use only verse 1 of
Matthew 7. Because if you do you do harm to the true intent of what Jesus' is trying to say with the verse first. Jesus uses the first verse to set up His point about judging. Therefore He goes on to speak about if you judge you best be not involved in the same behavior as the one you are trying to help. It is what you and I are involved in at this very moment when we are having a discussion in this thread. The word κρίνω means to decide, or call into question. Jesus makes his statement in the first verse then uses the analogy of a friend helping his friend remove a speck of dust. Yet, the one friend has instead of a speck a beam. This was to not only show hypocrisy but how much hypocrisy can cause a blindness which will hinder ministerial work. Jesus then tells his students that they must first remove the problem which is causing their hypocrisy, then once that is removed then and only then can they see clearly enough to make a proper decision through a judgement.
You can't even have ministers, teachers, counselors, or even parents if the admonishment of not to judge began and ended in the first verse.
One thing in Churchanity that really gets things jacked up is that people take verses and abbreviate them to only use the portion which suits their doctrine or argument. By doing this they loose the whole meaning of what the writer was trying to convey to his audience. If the church couldn't make a judgement the apostle couldn't of ever made a judgement concerning the man who was sleeping with his father's wife, that the man be put out of the church. Oh, there is another rule! In the church you couldn't sleep with your father's wife.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
And pentecost is doing better? Look at the divorce rate in OP. Look at the pregnancy rate. Rules don't internalize principles.
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I think I mentioned the Pew report? They don't gather their statistics from One God Apostolic movement, they gather their research from the mainstream of Christendom. Yet, I believe I mentioned that you have rotten examples in every denomination. Why still focus on zits when you have good content within the person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Every religion has it's best examples and they are all exemplary.
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The best examples shows how the religion should be practiced if one is a true devotee. If someone is researching Islam, you want to find those who best portray the the model of the follower of Islam. So, may I ask you, have you ever seen the best example of the conservative Apostolic movement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Same problems. Yes! The SAME problems!! So the rules aren't making pentecost better.
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Again, we have to have an understanding between us that we both know that the principles should make the rules. Paul is making and setting rules in all his epistles which are based on Biblical principles, and he had problems insomuch that all those in Asia turned their backs on him.
To say the rules aren't making Pentecost better is like walking into the kitchen while the family is having breakfast seeing milk spilled on the floor and blaming everyone sitting at the table for the spillage. There are people who are seated quietly eating who don't have a clue as to what your talking about because they don't spill milk, especially the milk you are speaking about.
I know people, and you have to know people who are conservative standard adhering Apostolic One God Pennycostals who are the best examples of Christians you have ever seen.
Therefore since these people do exist we can't say they aren't being helped by their religion. Obviously they are being helped, and even generations of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I came in from the outside and was promised so many things that simply weren't true. Because the IDEA is that these rules make things better, but they, in fact, don't. And they can make things worse.
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I came in from the outside and was promised so many things and I got everything I was promised. Now I don't know if you got the same deal I got, or what you were promised. But since you brought up your personal experience and since it sounds similar to my own I thought I would make the comment. I came I saw I stayed because it is what I was looking for in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I had some rough things happen to me, but instead of judging the whole system flawed I came into this with the understanding that people can be real disappointments.
Since that is the human experience and whether your an Apostolic or in a motorcycle club, you can be assured that people will not only let you down....but....
Some will also put you on the Preterist wall of shame, throw you out of the church, run off the rest of the saints to sell the church property for 1.5 million, call every preacher you ever knew to tell them your an enemy of the State, and top it off by trying to destroy your wife.
Oh did I type all that?
Sorry, but while the leaves may have fallen, the tree still stands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I don't fault conservative dress. Each family needs to make it's own choice. But don't use it as a measuring rod as to who is in the kindgom. Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
This isn't throwing out the baby with the bath water. Throw out the rules that measure others. Throw out the rules that hide sin behind man made doctrine. Keep the principles for godly living. Make rules for your family not other adults who are capable themselves to make their own rules. |
You can't babysit adults! I'm a minister, not the school principle. I don't make people kneel on books while holding out pencils and reciting the tower of Babel isn't a rocket, the tower of Babel isn't a rocket, the tower of Babel isn't a rocket. The rules come from the principles, the principles are the basis (or should be) of the rules. It is like this, people have to have their own convictions based on an understanding of the scriptures. They must be led by the power of God, and not the power of emotion, coercion, fear of the madding crowd. When someone has a real experience with the living God and His word they will be led into all truth, not just some.
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