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08-28-2014, 05:12 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
In case y'all missed it......
Jesus did not create an alcoholic wine.
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Yes he did and it wasn't "New Wine" that the text says
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God’s word forbade giving alcoholic wine to someone else. Habakkuk 2:15 says, "Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, pressing him to the bottle, even to make him drunk, that you may look on his nakedness.
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Once again you have obfuscated what we are discussing and equivocated. That verse does not forbid giving wine, it forbids PRESSING SOMEONE TO GET DRUNK. Wow. I don't know what the problem is, either a reading problem or just compartmentalization. But the verses you quote don't say what you want them to say.
Its talking about FORCING someone to get drunk
Hab 2:15 "You who force your neighbor to drink wine are as good as dead — you who make others intoxicated by forcing them to drink from the bowl of your furious anger, so you can look at their genitals.
If you bothered to have read the verses I posted before you would have seen this one
Lev 23:13 along with its grain offering, two tenths of an ephah of choice wheat flour mixed with olive oil, as a gift to the Lord, a soothing aroma, and its drink offering, one fourth of a hin of wine
Jesus would have disobeyed God's word as found in Habakkuk and sinned if he had made an alcoholic wine, which was drunk by others. But Hebrews 4:15 says that Jesus "was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." Jesus never sinned or He could not have died for us. If He sinned He would have had to die for His own sin.
We have seen in the above scriptures that the wine Jesus made was not fermented. It was fresh grape juice, which is also referred to as wine (OINOS). To say that Jesus made 120 gallons of fermented wine is blasphemy. God’s word says "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise" ( Proverbs 20:1).[/QUOTE]
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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08-28-2014, 05:14 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,045
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
But Hebrews 4:15 says that Jesus "was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." Jesus never sinned or He could not have died for us. If He sinned He would have had to die for His own sin.
We have seen in the above scriptures that the wine Jesus made was not fermented. It was fresh grape juice, which is also referred to as wine (OINOS). To say that Jesus made 120 gallons of fermented wine is blasphemy. God’s word says "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise" ( Proverbs 20:1). |
Sorry, but what you are trying to offer isn't even close to Biblical reality. Jesus turned water into fermented wine. The leader of the feast tastes the water which Jesus converted and states it was the best. Also the indication of the best wine is that the best wine would make people intoxicated that they wouldn't be able to notice they were being given poor quality wine. Sorry, but to interpret that piece of scripture any other way is laughable.
Abstain from alcohol with all fervency which is in you, but don't by any means wrest the scripture just to defend some personal prohibition.
Game over.
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"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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08-28-2014, 05:16 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,698
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Re: Social drinking?
While comparison was made regarding excessive wine as the sin of drunkedness to overeating as the sin of gluttony, the outcome of each of such sins are miles apart. While a food addicted obese man dies from a heart attack, the addictiveness of alcoholic beverages like beer or wine has killed millions of innocent lives besides the lives of the ones consuming it. That's why I'm not convinced consuming beverages containing alcohol is in a Christians best interest, whether scripturally considered sin or not. Christians showing that they can put back a couple bud lites without sinning, while thousands die from the result of failing to not fall into its addiction.
Yeah I know, the discussion is "wine=sin or not sin"... Just sayin'
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As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
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08-28-2014, 05:19 PM
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friendly to the sinners
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 529
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All this wine talk makes me want to enjoy a glass. A Cabernet with crackers, cheese and summer sausage would be nice.
__________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. - Benjamin Franklin
-Commit2013-
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08-28-2014, 05:21 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxeas
yes he did and it wasn't "new wine" that the text says
once again you have obfuscated what we are discussing and equivocated. That verse does not forbid giving wine, it forbids pressing someone to get drunk. Wow. I don't know what the problem is, either a reading problem or just compartmentalization. But the verses you quote don't say what you want them to say.
Its talking about forcing someone to get drunk
hab 2:15 "you who force your neighbor to drink wine are as good as dead — you who make others intoxicated by forcing them to drink from the bowl of your furious anger, so you can look at their genitals.
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You found a biased version Prax. Notice the kjv says "giveth" not "forceth"....habakkuk 2:15king james version (kjv)
15 woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
"giveth" is synonymous with "gift"...lol
Last edited by Praxeas; 08-28-2014 at 05:32 PM.
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08-28-2014, 05:24 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,045
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by endtimer
All this wine talk makes me want to enjoy a glass. A Cabernet with crackers, cheese and summer sausage would be nice.
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I'd rather have a big plate of juicy bacon smothering a nice inch thick sirloin, was it all down with a tall glass of ice cold unpasteurized unhomogenized milk.
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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08-28-2014, 05:26 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,045
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
You found a biased version Prax. Notice the kjv says "giveth" not "forceth"....habakkuk 2:15king james version (kjv)
15 woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
"giveth" is synonymous with "gift"...lol
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Your kidding right?
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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08-28-2014, 05:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by endtimer
All this wine talk makes me want to enjoy a glass. A Cabernet with crackers, cheese and summer sausage would be nice.
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Funny you should say that...A pastor once told me the more you preach against a certain sin, the more you see it in the congregation showing up. I hope I am not making you want it...
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08-28-2014, 05:28 PM
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friendly to the sinners
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mid-west
Posts: 529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
I'd rather have a big plate of juicy bacon smothering a nice inch thick sirloin, was it all down with a tall glass of ice cold unpasteurized unhomogenized milk.
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I could go for that. Prefer ice cold whole milk.
__________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. - Benjamin Franklin
-Commit2013-
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08-28-2014, 05:29 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,045
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Re: Social drinking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by endtimer
I could go for that. Prefer ice cold whole milk.
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Amen! 
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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