Social drinking?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

How do you get that the wine was the best because of Alcohol? It seems to me that it would be the best because of taste. Another statement was made that the Greek word methyo is only to be enterpreted drunken. How do we really know that "well drank" is not correct.

g3184. μεθύω methyō; from another form of 3178; to drink to intoxication, i. e. get drunk: — drink well, make ( be) drunk (- en).
AV ( 7)- be drunken 5, have well drunk 1, be made drunk 1;
to be drunken

I understand that most places were it is used it means intoxicated, but it doesn't mean that it would have to be all. Just another thought drunkenness and gluttony are often lumped together. I was told as a kid not to drink too many beverages except water because they were not good for me. Excess food and beverages today are bad for you. Even excess amounts of unfermented wine could be bad for you. kidney stones, diabetes, and things the like aren't they caused by drinking a lot of beverages other than water.

Every place we take drunken we always think intoxicated and probably most if not all it is, but there is always the case where we may be wrong and it is referring to the excess of wine and not just the intoxication. You can eat all you want and over time it will kill you, but never get you drunk. Why are they lumped together so much. Could it be because of excess is harmful to you regardless of whether it is intoxicating or not. Could that also be connected to why we are commanded to fast.

The same way I can't prove to you the wine isn't alcoholic at the wedding I don't believe you can prove to me it was. You are right this thread is over to most because I think everyone on here has made up their mind. I will respect anyone, but I will always have trouble putting my confidence in someone's walk with God that choose to drink alcoholic beverages. I know that I can be wrong, but that is just what seeing professing Christians make me feel when they drink alcohol.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The three words "have well drunk" in your King James Bibles is translated from one Greek word μεθύω which literally means intoxicated.

Jesus first miracle was to create fermented wine from water.

So, for the last 2,000 years when anyone who knew the Greek came across μεθύω they immediately would understand what the writer was trying to say.

In the Latin Vulgate translates the Greek word μεθύω to the Latin word inebriati from where we get the English word "inebriate".

This debate is over.

This isn't over because of agendas are rock solid in some people's minds, this debate is finished because the Bible says Jesus' first miracle was changing water into FERMENTED WINE.

With all due respect please don't be offended but I think you missed all the evidence which is being presented that wine is fermented in the scripture. Yet, to wrest the plain scripture IS just useless, in the original text it most certainly uses the Greek word for intoxication, which is μεθύω. In the vulgar Latin it is inebriati. So, deny it all you want, but the holy writ isn't with you on this.

GAME OVER

[good samaritan]

μεθύω according to the strong's concordance can mean have well drunk.

game over

[good samaritan]

the bible says wine "oinos" it doesn't specify whether or not it was fermented or not. They also said that the place where they smashed the grapes where called a winepress and it didn't immediately come out wine. it came out juice yet they referred to it as a winepress?

Yayin and oinos (which in the Septuagint also often translates most of the Hebrew words for alcoholic beverages listed above)[2][85] are commonly translated "wine", but the two are also rarely, and perhaps figuratively or anticipatorily,[86] used to refer to freshly pressed juice non-alcoholic Wikipedia

10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty,
and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. " couldn't of bursted out fermented."

You may have more study on the subject than I. You may have more resources than I on the pros of the wine always being fermented. I have seen all I need to see to make up my mind. scripturally.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging:
and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine;
nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law,
and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish,
and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty,
and remember his misery no more.

Many here are smart on their commentaries of what greek words mean, but I fear that you are not allowing God to lead you. If you practice your "liberty" to drink alcohol at some point you will fail or will cause someone else to fail. If I allow alcohol in my life it is going to make recovered alcoholics feel like it is o.k. to drink with moderation and they are going to be back in sin. Addiction is real.

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient:all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

It is logic. The only wine we need is the new wine from God. If you need to get a thrill get it from the presence of God.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

μεθύω according to the strong's concordance can mean have well drunk.

game over

Here is the word μεθύω in the best ancient Greek dictionary you can find, the LXX. Everywhere you find μεθύω it is translated in English as drunk, meaning intoxicated.


1 Samuel 25:36

καὶ παρεγενήθη Αβιγαια πρὸς Ναβαλ καὶ ἰδοὺ αὐτῷ πότος ἐν οἴκῳ αὐτοῦ ὡς πότος βασιλέως καὶ ἡ καρδία Ναβαλ ἀγαθὴ ἐπ’ αὐτόν καὶ αὐτὸς μεθύων ἕως σφόδρα καὶ οὐκ ἀπήγγειλεν αὐτῷ ῥῆμα μικρὸν ἢ μέγα ἕως φωτὸς τοῦ πρωί

1 Samuel 25:36

Abigail came to Nabal; and behold, he held a feast in his house, like the feast of a king. Nabal’s heart was merry within him, for he was very drunken. Therefore she told him nothing, less or more, until the morning light.

1 Kings 16:9

καὶ συνέστρεψεν ἐπ’ αὐτὸν Ζαμβρι ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἡμίσους τῆς ἵππου καὶ αὐτὸς ἦν ἐν Θερσα πίνων μεθύων ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ Ωσα τοῦ οἰκονόμου ἐν Θερσα

1 Kings 16:9

His servant Zimri, captain of half his chariots, conspired against him. Now he was in Tirzah, drinking himself drunk in the house of Arza, who was over the household in Tirzah:

1 Kings 20:16

καὶ ἐξῆλθεν μεσημβρίας καὶ υἱὸς Αδερ πίνων μεθύων ἐν Σοκχωθ αὐτὸς καὶ οἱ βασιλεῖς τριάκοντα καὶ δύο βασιλεῖς συμβοηθοὶ μετ’ αὐτοῦ

1Kings 20:16

They went out at noon. But Ben Hadad was drinking himself drunk in the pavilions, he and the kings, the thirty-two kings who helped him.

Psalm 107:27 ἐταράχθησαν ἐσαλεύθησαν ὡς ὁ μεθύων καὶ πᾶσα ἡ σοφία αὐτῶν κατεπόθη

Psalm 107:27
They reel back and forth, and stagger like a drunken man,
and are at their wits’ end.

Job 12:25 ψηλαφήσαισαν σκότος καὶ μὴ φῶς πλανηθείησαν δὲ ὥσπερ ὁ μεθύων

Job 12:25

They grope in the dark without light.
He makes them stagger like a drunken man.

‏
Isaiah 19:14

κύριος γὰρ ἐκέρασεν αὐτοῖς πνεῦμα πλανήσεως καὶ ἐπλάνησαν Αἴγυπτον ἐν πᾶσι τοῖς ἔργοις αὐτῶν ὡς πλανᾶται ὁ μεθύων καὶ ὁ ἐμῶν ἅμα

Isaiah 19:14

LORD has mixed a spirit of perverseness in the midst of her; and they have caused Egypt to go astray in all of its works, like a drunken man staggers in his vomit.

Isaiah 24:20 ἔκλινεν καὶ σεισθήσεται ὡς ὀπωροφυλάκιον ἡ γῆ ὡς ὁ μεθύων καὶ κραιπαλῶν καὶ πεσεῖται καὶ οὐ μὴ δύνηται ἀναστῆναι κατίσχυσεν γὰρ ἐπ’ αὐτῆς ἡ ἀνομία

Isaiah 24:20
The earth will stagger like a drunken man, and will sway back and forth like a hammock. Its disobedience will be heavy on it, and it will fall and not rise again.

Allow me to add this for free, the transformed water which is wine when it comes to the master of the feast, the statement the master of the feast makes is that the good wine is usually served first, and when everyone is intoxicated then lower quality wine is then served, but you saved the best for last. Now, if this was grape juice? The verse of scripture would make NO SENSE, because how can grape juice cause anyone not do be able to tell good grape juice for bad grape juice when they have their faculties about them?


Man, this debate is done like the dinner dishes.

[Sean]

Brethren, you MUST see this site, it is truly...Game Over for the Bible boozers!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...VYh91rDpFgGegA

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

the bible says wine "oinos" it doesn't specify whether or not it was fermented or not. They also said that the place where they smashed the grapes where called a winepress and it didn't immediately come out wine. it came out juice yet they referred to it as a winepress?

Yayin and oinos (which in the Septuagint also often translates most of the Hebrew words for alcoholic beverages listed above)[2][85] are commonly translated "wine", but the two are also rarely, and perhaps figuratively or anticipatorily,[86] used to refer to freshly pressed juice non-alcoholic Wikipedia

10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty,
and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. " couldn't of bursted out fermented."

You may have more study on the subject than I. You may have more resources than I on the pros of the wine always being fermented. I have seen all I need to see to make up my mind. scripturally.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging:
and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine;
nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law,
and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish,
and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty,
and remember his misery no more.

Many here are smart on their commentaries of what greek words mean, but I fear that you are not allowing God to lead you. If you practice your "liberty" to drink alcohol at some point you will fail or will cause someone else to fail. If I allow alcohol in my life it is going to make recovered alcoholics feel like it is o.k. to drink with moderation and they are going to be back in sin. Addiction is real.

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient:all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

It is logic. The only wine we need is the new wine from God. If you need to get a thrill get it from the presence of God.

Listen, whatever someone's problem may be doesn't make the word of God say things it doesn't say. Jesus' first miracle was turning water into fermented wine, you just have to deal with that, and pray for those who are weak to get their good stuff together and live for God.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brethren, you MUST see this site, it is truly...Game Over for the boozers!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...VYh91rDpFgGegA

Good he can also prove that Ellen G White is a prophet of God and that you should have church on Saturday.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Here is the word μεθύω in the best ancient Greek dictionary you can find, the LXX. Everywhere you find μεθύω it is translated in English as drunk, meaning intoxicated.

How do you know it is the best Greek dictionary I suppose you read it somewhere.





Allow me to add this for free, the transformed water which is wine when it comes to the master of the feast, the statement the master of the feast makes is that the good wine is usually served first, and when everyone is intoxicated then lower quality wine is then served, but you saved the best for last. Now, if this was grape juice? The verse of scripture would make NO SENSE, because how can grape juice cause anyone not do be able to tell good grape juice for bad grape juice when they have their faculties about them?

How come the best couldn't be about taste quality instead alcohol content? That makes more sense to me. Natural Ice has more alcohol it than coors lite but the coors lite was definitely better beer. I know this from many years of addiction.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

How come the best couldn't be about taste quality instead alcohol content? That makes more sense to me. Natural Ice has more alcohol it than coors lite but the coors lite was definitely better beer. I know this from many years of addiction.

Because that isn't the context of the verse, does taste make people not even coherent enough to know they are being served bad quality wine? When you are drunk you can't tell good beer from the water in a fish bowl.

[Evang.Benincasa]

This debate is over.