Homosexuality question

[ixoye_val69]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Oh, what do I believe? I'm an agnostic. Further, I believe there is nothing after death. And I believe it's hogwash to claim that someone who doesn't believe in God (and that God has told us things) is evil, doesn't love truth, is a fool, etc. Utter hogwash.

I know of some Agnostics that are not sure if there is a God but they also will not say there is no God. They are still trying to figure things out. It's like being on a fence. You don't want to choose what is on the left and you don't want to choose what is on the right because you do not want to choose (or guess as you put it) the wrong side. Do you believe that God exists? That really is the first decision that needs to be made. If you are not sure that God exists then I can understand now why you have a problem with believing that the Bible is God's word and also not believing that God communicates with people and wants to have a relationship with them. You see if the Bible really is God's word and He really does want to have a relationship with us then that means there is someone that we need to be accountable to for the decisions that we make.


Other than calling yourself Agnostic...what do you believe in relation to God and who He is? Do you believe He exists or are you not sure that he exists (in this case are you seeking answers so you can know for sure)? What are your beliefs about Jesus? I'm assuming you do not believe he came to save the lost because if there is no afterlife then why bother? I'm not trying to disrespect you and I am not calling you evil. I really want to know and understand where you are coming from.

My apologies to Houston that this is off topic from the original post.

My apologies to other members if anything I am saying sounds argumentative. That is not my intention.

[shazeep]

we are, all of us, swimming in sin, anyway--American Christians particularly; and God comes to us (all) where we are at. It is easy to look down upon homosexuals in order to make oneself feel superior, and to a spiritually blind person who imagines that they have accepted Christ because they said some words in a church, it is (at best) the primary reason for even mentioning it. Their premises are revealed in this, and they are shown to be false believers.

Tell your friend that Christ does not condemn him, and suggest that he run from any other accusers, as they do not come from God. The answer to "Why is ________ a sin" is to stop dwelling on sin, and seek better things to contemplate. Let satan and his minions in the church seek out sin and accuse; and let God's purpose for yourself (friend) be manifest.

[houston]

Lots of women love that mess.

[Timmy]

By the way, my "campaign against Christianity"? Odd campaign, isn't it, that includes, uh, "tactics" such as telling everyone to do what works for them, including their religion?

Very few AFFers have shown me the courtesy to tell me that. Strange.

(OK, not really strange, I know. Not when you consider the dogma, such as the "fool" discussion we just had. The dogma says it is the only thing that will work. So it doesn't really surprise me.)

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Timmy

By the way, my "campaign against Christianity"? Odd campaign, isn't it, that includes, uh, "tactics" such as telling everyone to do what works for them, including their religion?

Very few AFFers have shown me the courtesy to tell me that. Strange.

(OK, not really strange, I know. Not when you consider the dogma, such as the "fool" discussion we just had. The dogma says it is the only thing that will work. So it doesn't really surprise me.)

touche

[shazeep]

ok well it's the inyourface part, prolly...not that i can talk

[shazeep]

well put. Lots of people seek the approval of men, too, i guess...except for Timmy, of course

[rosejones]

Homosexuality is not natural. The natural design is for man and woman. They can conceive children. It is not natural to couple male with male and female with female. It would be like trying to fit two screws together or two nuts together and then say, "See, it's natural for them to go together."

1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28 has much to say about the situation. The Bible, of course, condemns homosexuality. It is also not rocket science to discern that homosexual marriage is also condemned. But our society does not rely on the Bible for its moral truth. Instead, it relies on humanistic and relativistic morals upon which it builds its ethical structure.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by rosejones

Homosexuality is not natural. The natural design is for man and woman. They can conceive children. It is not natural to couple male with male and female with female. It would be like trying to fit two screws together or two nuts together and then say, "See, it's natural for them to go together."

1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28 has much to say about the situation. The Bible, of course, condemns homosexuality. It is also not rocket science to discern that homosexual marriage is also condemned. But our society does not rely on the Bible for its moral truth. Instead, it relies on humanistic and relativistic morals upon which it builds its ethical structure.

I believe that being gay might be "natural"... but please try to understand what I mean by "natural".

Paul wrote...

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

There is "no good thing" in our flesh. Why? The Fall. When our first ancestors fell from grace in the Garden of Eden sin entered the world and with it came shame, guilty, and the curse. Under the curse our flesh underwent some serious changes that affected us down to our very genetics. We began to age. We became susceptible to disease and sickness. Women began to experience menses and the hormonal imbalances that come with it. Children were now born with deformities, chemical and hormonal imbalances that effect development and behaviors. We are FALLEN. We went from living in supernatural perfection to... being natural. Being natural, we're susceptible to all the influences that brute beasts are effected by. Lust, raging hormones, fear, paranoia, and the list can go on and on. Since the fall... there can be found no good thing in our flesh. This flesh and it's biology is no longer perfect. Let's not perpetuate the MYTH that human beings are born perfect, because we're not. Birth defects abound. Hormonal imbalances in the womb and in development are present in varying degrees throughout our species and yes... we tend to act more like animals... unless we're born again and experience "regeneration". However, even with our spirit being regenerated... we're still trapped in this fallen flesh.

Anyone who doesn't believe that hormones and biology can influence behavior has never lived with a woman. lol

No, seriously. Chemical imbalances and hormones play a major role in not only development and general behavior... but also in our sexuality. Don't believe me? One word... puberty. And some blind studies have shown that some people respond to same gender pheromones while others don't. Take in mind... no one knew what they were being exposed to while their brain activity was being monitored. Among those participants who claimed to be gay they discovered that the pleasure centers of the brain activated when smelling same gender pheromones. Not so with straight participants. A very narrow percentage of those participating had pleasure centers activated in the brain by both gender pheromones.

My point? My point is, we're all born broken. Yes, we're born fallen creatures. Sinners by... nature. Therefore, it shouldn't surprise us if some are born with a proclivity or predisposition to violence or any other sinful activity due to neurological issues, hormonal issues, or genetics.

In fact, Scripture admonishes us to move beyond our "natural" state...

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

The natural man is a sinner by nature. It's natural, it's a part of the natural man's very nature. Therefore, when a homosexual says, "I was born this way", we should realize that YES... he or she was born that way. They were born a sinner like everyone else. This is simply their sin, their infirmity, their thorn in the flesh, their proclivity, their besetting sin.

I think that if we keep this in mind it will help us to demonstrate true Christian understanding and compassion. They are indeed in the grips of the sinful nature residing in their flesh. Therefore, only God can regenerate them and change them. They can't change themselves. We can't change them. We have to allow the grace of God to connect them with Him, for only He can bring the necessary changes that He desires.

So drop the myth that we're all born perfect and choose sin. We're born sinners with a sinful nature. There is no good thing in our flesh.

[shazeep]

very nice, Aquila--my ongoing comments on Original Sin notwithstanding!