Revelation Chapters 21 and 22... later 19 and 20

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

When I read it I understand it to mean, Jesus will return in the clouds and every eye [that can see] will see him

So you admit you cannot go entirely literal with that verse.

and they also which pierced him [not the Roman soldiers at the cross but the Jewish descendents of those Jews who accepted His blood to be put upon their hands when Pilate didn't want to crucify Christ]:

That cannot be true. The ones who directly slew Him are the ones involved. To think the jew's descendants are the guilty people is to violate what the bible plainly said about Israel.

Eze 18:1-4 KJV The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, (2) What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? (3) As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. (4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The above specifically pointed to Israel and said the idea that the descendants would suffer due to the sins of their forefathers is absolutely not possible, since the only ones who suffer due to sins are the people who directly committed those sins, and no more.

and all the kindreds of the earth [all mankind that is alive on the earth] shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Incorrect again.

The Greek terms for KINDREDS and EARTH are shown to be translated as follows:

Rev 1:7 KJV+ Behold,2400 he cometh2064 with3326 clouds;3507 and2532 every3956 eye3788 shall see3700 him,846 and2532 they also which3748 pierced1574 him:846 and2532 all3956 kindreds5443 of the3588 earth1093 shall wail2875 because of1909 him.846 Even so,3483 Amen.281

G5443
φυλή
phulē
foo-lay'
From G5453 (compare G5444); an offshoot, that is, race or clan: - kindred, tribe.

G1093
γῆ
gē
ghay
Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): - country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.

Notice that of all the definitions, "PHULE" is translated KINDRED or TRIBE. The definition can be "RACE", but that would violate Ezekiel 18 as well. People wailing because of Christ's coming could not refer to the issue of Him being crucified as Rev 1:7 says it is, unless they are the people alive during the time of the generation who killed Him. Only that generation could be punished since God does not put the sins of the fathers upon the children.

Please explain Ezekiel 18 in light of this issue if you disagree.

And "GHAY" is translated as EARTH, COUNTRY, GROUND, LAND and WORLD in the KJV. In order to choose which definition is correct, we have to analyze what would and what would not violate what the Bible sets forth in implicated issues. So if we limit the wrath to those people who directly sinned, and not their ancestors, so as to not violate Ezekiel 18, the only conclusion we can come up with is all the "tribes of the land" shall wail, since John was told it would shortly come to pass and it was at hand, and the descendants can never suffer due to the sins of their forefathers. That restricts it to national Israel in the first century.

Preterism correctly maintains ALL THAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS about everything involved -- the sins of the fathers not being put upon their descendants, especially, as well as the notation that it was an event that was at hand 2000 years ago, and would come to pass shortly.