"in the Spirit"

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by houston

Ever pray in tongues and feel contractions in your belly? Serious question.

Yes, frequently. Such as seemed a burden of intercessory prayer or perhaps personal deliverance, as the case may be.

[Aquila]

Childish legalisms.

Are not prophesies, visions, and interpretations given "in the Spirit"? They are manifestations of the Spirit given in one's native tongue.

Some are far too dogmatic and rigid in their approach. This is a dynamic and flowing spiritual reality.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Has no one else been praying "in the Spirit" and vacillated, as God moves, between tongues and native language, i.e. between spirit and understanding?

Does that mean, then, at every instance of change between speaking in tongues and speaking in the native language, that one goes in and out of the Spirit?

That doesn't make sense to me.

It's all "in the Spirit" if all inspired by the Spirit. Jesus prayed many times before Pentecost with the understanding in His own native tongue. Was that not "in the Spirit"?

If we ask anything according to the will of God, He hears us, correct?

And the Spirit itself makes intercession for us according to the will of God, does it not?

So, if the Spirit is making intercession for us and leading us to pray according to the will of God, and if by praying according to the will of God we can know that God hears us and that we will have the petitions we ask of Him, then by default all such praying, whether in tongues or not in tongues, is "in the Spirit".

I agree with you here. However, unless I am misunderstanding Mizpeh and Esaias, they are saying it is not ever necessary to speak in tongues again after initial infilling. I don't agree with that. I don't see the scriptures supporting that view.

[Pressing-On]

One thing I would like to say is that the Apostles taught more on "worship" than they did on Acts 2:38. Everything comes into play when we worship.

Notice these scriptures - Acts 1:4; Ephesians 6:18; Philippians 4:6 - "in prayer/worship and supplication/petition", "with all prayer/worship and supplication/petition"; "by prayer/worship and supplication/petition".

Worship should always precede petition.

Notice when studying the word "prayer" that the definition "worship" G4335 is used more often.

We would see more things happen if we focused on "worship" rather than whether or not it is allowable to speak in tongues in church, at home or ever again after the initial infilling. JMO.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Childish legalisms.

Are not prophesies, visions, and interpretations given "in the Spirit"? They are manifestations of the Spirit given in one's native tongue.

Not in the context of the HUMAN SPIRIT mentioned in 1 Cor 14:14.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So... when you guys are praying in your own language, "with the understanding", then your spirit is NOT praying, you are NOT in the spirit, your prayers aren't spiritual?

When MY SPIRIT prays, it has nothing to do with being spiritual in the context you are presenting it. It does in one sense, but not how you are asking. We are talking apples and oranges when we refer to being spiritual and praying in the spirit in the context of 1 Cor 14:14. One can be very spiritual to pray in one's understanding. They are spiritual in their maturity as to what to pray about. But Paul was not talking about that at all when he spoke of praying "in the spirit".

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It isn't strictly one's own spirit that is praying. In fact, the Holy Spirit is also interceding.

Romans 8:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

True but that was not what Paul was referring to by IN THE SPIRIT.

he was simply referring to the human spirit being in activity towards God's Spirit. You are speaking of the spirit in 1 Cor 14:14 in a context Paul was not. Which is fine and true.

How is it that it is considered to be our spirit praying, yet the Holy Spirit may also make intercession through us and our prayers? We read...

1 Corinthians 6:17 English Standard Version (ESV)
17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

He is truly the Vine... and we are the branches. Living extensions of Him. The Spirit prays and speaks through our spirit when tongues are taking place. This is also seen when coupled with interpretation. It is the Spirit that is speaking through His abiding presence in our spirit, our inner man. This realization broke upon me after God began using me with regards to tongues and interpretation.

That being said, even when we pray with understanding (as the Spirit leads), we are praying "in the Spirit".

But that IN THE SPIRIT is not what Paul meant in 1 Cor 14:14. I agree we are IN THE SPIRIT when we pray in native language by knowing what to pray for an what God hears. But in the context of 1 Cor 14:14, the only reference in the bible that says PRAY IN THE SPIRIT it is not speaking about what you are speaking about. That's all that I am saying.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

True but that was not what Paul was referring to by IN THE SPIRIT.

he was simply referring to the human spirit being in activity towards God's Spirit. You are speaking of the spirit in 1 Cor 14:14 in a context Paul was not. Which is fine and true.



But that IN THE SPIRIT is not what Paul meant in 1 Cor 14:14. I agree we are IN THE SPIRIT when we pray in native language by knowing what to pray for an what God hears. But in the context of 1 Cor 14:14, the only reference in the bible that says PRAY IN THE SPIRIT it is not speaking about what you are speaking about. That's all that I am saying.

Why are you narrowing the entire question to I Corinthians 14?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

One thing I would like to say is that the Apostles taught more on "worship" than they did on Acts 2:38. Everything comes into play when we worship.

Notice these scriptures - Acts 1:4; Ephesians 6:18; Philippians 4:6 - "in prayer/worship and supplication/petition", "with all prayer/worship and supplication/petition"; "by prayer/worship and supplication/petition".

Worship should always precede petition.

Notice when studying the word "prayer" that the definition "worship" G4335 is used more often.

We would see more things happen if we focused on "worship" rather than whether or not it is allowable to speak in tongues in church, at home or ever again after the initial infilling. JMO.

Amen! And note that one must put the Book down to worship, which btw cannot--or anyway does not--happen in a church building. "Worship" means "follow."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Why are you narrowing the entire question to I Corinthians 14?

because it's the only verse in the entire bible that mentions prayer in the spirit and that's what the original poster asked about.