Is the Bible all you need for your morality?

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, I have been in Apostolic/Pentecost for 35plus years.


I kinda gave up propping up a manna God and became one myself. I never found one that taught perfect truth, so I had to be MY OWN man of God to keep from being led astray or parroting the administrations' false teachings.

I think that is the intention of the Holy Ghost for mankind. (when the man gets out of the way and Jesus becomes our Man of God).

Now that I am a Man of God(for myself), I train others to put Jesus, alone as their priest or Man of God. This makes my role as a servant/ teacher and spiritual equal to the new believer. I spend my efforts making THEM into saints or men of God that are dependent on Jesus ONLY, not me.
The "MannaGod" concept that we have been taught, such as the mediatory role between man and God is derived from Old Testament stories that are not relevant to the role of the N.T. believer today. Case in point....In the Old Testament, the "folks" had priests to go to God for them, but in the N.T., we ALL are priests because our bodies are the temples when we receive the Spirit.
Therefore, every believer should be trained in their role as priests unto their God, not to serve an O.T. priest type on earth(aka pastor)

With all due respect,

This is a prime example of why you need a pastor.

Please explain how you view the story of Cornelius the man of God Devout, gave much alms, prayed to God always, and feared God with all his house, and was in tuned in enough to the Spirit to see visions. But he needed a Pastor. That's why God sent Peter because he was not saved.
Acts 10:1-3

Sincerely
,
J.A. Perez

[n david]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Where exactly in the Bible does it say you need a "man of God" to show you?

You mentioned Eph. 4:11-13. I find nowhere in that scripture where it says a "man of God" must show you. Instead we find a list of five different types of servant ministries that are given.

Eph. 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The five fold ministry was given to 1) perfect the saints; 2) for the work of the ministry, and 3) to edify the body of Christ. The outcome of this ministry would be to bring all into the unity of the faith, knowledge of the son of God, and unto a perfect man in Christ.

A servant ministry, such as those listed in the 5-fold ministry in the NT church were not rulers, or lords, or kings, or dictators over God's people, or else they would be contradicting Jesus words in Mark 10:42-45

"Mark 10:42-45
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

I've been told the reason people must have a Pastor is the part which says, "for the perfecting of the saints."

[n david]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

With all due respect,

This is a prime example of why you need a pastor.

Please explain how you view the story of Cornelius the man of God Devout, gave much alms, prayed to God always, and feared God with all his house, and was in tuned in enough to the Spirit to see visions. But he needed a Pastor. That's why God sent Peter because he was not saved.
Acts 10:1-3

Sincerely
,
J.A. Perez

Wow. Sir, I would suggest you read Acts 10 again, since what is posted above is void of understanding of the text. And for future reference, if you're going to try to belittle someone by saying, "This is a prime example of why you need a pastor" and using that smiley, you should post something which proves that having a Pastor makes you smarter than not having a Pastor.

Acts 10 and the story of Cornelius and Peter has absolutely nothing to do with needing a Pastor.

[n david]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Please explain how you view the story of Cornelius the man of God Devout, gave much alms, prayed to God always, and feared God with all his house, and was in tuned in enough to the Spirit to see visions. But he needed a Pastor. That's why God sent Peter because he was not saved.
Acts 10:1-3

1) Cornelius did not have a vision, he saw an Angel of the Lord
2) Peter had the vision of the unclean animals
3) The purpose of Peter going to meet with Cornelius is not because Cornelius needed a Pastor.

The purpose of Acts 10 was to fulfil what Jesus said in Acts 1:8 - to be witnesses in "in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Until Acts 10, the Holy Ghost had only fallen on Jews. Cornelius was the first Gentile filled with the Holy Ghost.

The reason God sent Peter to Cornelius was to show the Holy Ghost and salvation was for Gentiles also.

Again, nothing to do with needing a Pastor.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Where exactly in the Bible does it say you need a "man of God" to show you?

You mentioned Eph. 4:11-13. I find nowhere in that scripture where it says a "man of God" must show you. Instead we find a list of five different types of servant ministries that are given.

Eph. 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The five fold ministry was given to 1) perfect the saints; 2) for the work of the ministry, and 3) to edify the body of Christ. The outcome of this ministry would be to bring all into the unity of the faith, knowledge of the son of God, and unto a perfect man in Christ.

A servant ministry, such as those listed in the 5-fold ministry in the NT church were not rulers, or lords, or kings, or dictators over God's people, or else they would be contradicting Jesus words in Mark 10:42-45

"Mark 10:42-45
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

I was not trying to insult your ignorance so I avoided the example we have on record of a biblical truth found in Acts 8:31.
I figured you might already know.
Here we have a man on his way to Jerusalem to worship, just him and his Bible. The example here is that when your hunger reaches God, He will send you a Man of God to show you.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by n david

Wow. Sir, I would suggest you read Acts 10 again, since what is posted above is void of understanding of the text. And for future reference, if you're going to try to belittle someone by saying, "This is a prime example of why you need a pastor" and using that smiley, you should post something which proves that having a Pastor makes you smarter than not having a Pastor.

Acts 10 and the story of Cornelius and Peter has absolutely nothing to do with needing a Pastor.

Excuse me,
I have decieved myself, I thought that everyone looking at the simple example of Cornelius could see that his faith and works werent enough. He Needed a visitation of an angel to prefare him for the message that there was more to living for God than What he had.
I also do conceed that the purpose was twofold as to include the Gentiles. But I wasn't trying to make that point.

Im sure you are aware that some of the scripture is prophetic, literal and other times principle. This is an example of two Prophecy and principle.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Please excuse me for interupting, but might I add.
You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you.
That's in the bible.

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

I was not trying to insult your ignorance so I avoided the example we have on record of a biblical truth found in Acts 8:31.
I figured you might already know.
Here we have a man on his way to Jerusalem to worship, just him and his Bible. The example here is that when your hunger reaches God, He will send you a Man of God to show you.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

In your original post, you equated a "man of God" to a pastor. This is where your premise is wrong. The eunuch on his way to Jerusalem was sent someone who was part of the 5-fold ministry - Philip who was an evangelist - and NOT a pastor. Peter went to Cornelius as an evangelist, and NOT a pastor.

The term you are using "man of God" does not equate "pastor" ANYWHERE in the NT. Prove it with scripture if it does.

Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

In your original post, you equated a "man of God" to a pastor. This is where your premise is wrong. The eunuch on his way to Jerusalem was sent someone who was part of the 5-fold ministry - Philip who was an evangelist - and NOT a pastor. Peter went to Cornelius as an evangelist, and NOT a pastor.

The term you are using "man of God" does not equate "pastor" ANYWHERE in the NT. Prove it with scripture if it does.

Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."

With all due respect,

If you do not see a Pastor as a Man of God, as related to the 5-fold ministry. I cannot argue the point.

In my opinion it is very clear that what God did in the old Testament with the "Seer/Prophet" was a combined 5 fold ministry in one man. Just like at times when the spirit moves on my pastor he works in the role as a shepherd/pastor and others he works in the office as a teacher, then at times works in the spirit of an evangelist, and in oversight and management of the various ministries in the local church he works toward growth as an Apostle.

I understand that the Man of God in the Old Testament is a type and shadow of the men that now fill New Testament 5 Fold Ministry.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

With all due respect,

If you do not see a Pastor as a Man of God, as related to the 5-fold ministry. I cannot argue the point.

In my opinion it is very clear that what God did in the old Testament with the "Seer/Prophet" was a combined 5 fold ministry in one man. Just like at times when the spirit moves on my pastor he works in the role as a shepherd/pastor and others he works in the office as a teacher, then at times works in the spirit of an evangelist, and in oversight and management of the various ministries in the local church he works toward growth as an Apostle.

I understand that the Man of God in the Old Testament is a type and shadow of the men that now fill New Testament 5 Fold Ministry.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

You asked for a NT verse,
Ephesians 4:11-13

[J.A. Perez]

1Corinthians 4:1