Why I am Now Convinced of a Pre-Trib Rapture

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I thank God we aren't having this discussion in person because right about now you would be cursing like Popeye.

No insults Sean, just an observation of how you dodge and never seem to explain anything that you believe. By just posting verses without explanation isn't "teaching." Nor is it refuting. You might not know this, so someone needs to come to you and tell you all of this. Your credibility is pretty much shot as far as eschatology goes, and it is repeatedly told to you in posts. Yet, in your mind you have convinced yourself that you have trumped all the posters who believe differently from you. You constantly flog a dead horse by repeating yourself on issues which Brother Blume and others have answered you, and have moved on to other subjects. I said all that to say this, what you are really doing is not doing a very good job defending your position, because you don't know as much as your opponents. Therefore you are losing your credibility.

I totally understand that you don't care about this and will continue your Tom Foolery to continue to entertain all of us.

i would just like him to point out the pre-trib rapture in Matthew 24.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

i would just like him to point out the pre-trib rapture in Matthew 24.

Originalist it comes to mind that you have asked Sean this question before?

It seems that he is very reluctant to answer any questions posed to him. Well, maybe he is just reluctant to answer questions which he can't Google the answers then cut and paste them here?

I am also interested in Sean pointing out the pre-trib rapture in Matthew 24.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Sean , in Revelation 7:9 όχλος πολύς means an immense throng . This huge group cannot be "counted" by anyone. Since you mock individuals who take certain scriptures and views them as symbolic, then can you explain with scripture how myriads of physical angels, 144,000 Israelites , and a infinite throng of people (which cannot be counted by any man) will all live within the walls of a physical city?

Waiting for your explanation.

[Sean]

You saw my posts Mike...LOL

The bride is INSIDE the city.

First the place of abode of the bride is described.

The bride is finally revealed in verses 24 and afterwards.

You poor souls failed to read verses 24 onwards and got all mixed up, thinking the city was the bride.

Then after you went around teaching it, you are ashamed to face the fact the bride is inside the city, walking in it.

Poor mixed up preterists...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

You saw my posts Mike...LOL

The bride is INSIDE the city.

That is not what John wrote!

Rev 21:2 KJV And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

John did not see INSIDE THE CITY. He saw the CITY IN THE SKY and the CITY was adorned like a bride. Not anybody inside. And if he would have looked inside, he would have seen MANY PEOPLE. How can a crowd of people wear one single wedding gown, anyway, though? So, either way you are confused about everything about this vision.

THE CITY is the bride.

Rev 21:9-10 KJV And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. (10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,


After John was said he'd be shown the wife, he was shown the city. Not anyone INSIDE the city. He says NOTHING about seeing people inside the city. Nothing.

First the place of abode of the bride is described.

No, it says the bride herself was shown. Not the abode of the bride. Where does John say the city was the ABODE of the bride? Chapter and verse.

The bride is finally revealed in verses 24 and afterwards.

Where:

Rev 21:24-27 KJV And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Where is the bride shown in those verses? All i see are nations that come to the city to bring honour to it. They're not occupants of the city. They come to "IT". IT is the bride. IT Is the city. Where is the bride called people in those verses?

You poor souls failed to read verses 24 onwards and got all mixed up, thinking the city was the bride.

You said it is all literal. So that demands the city is the bride. Show me one sentence in these verses from 24 onward that mentions the bride is people.

Then after you went around teaching it, you are ashamed to face the fact the bride is inside the city, walking in it.

Poor mixed up preterists...

You complain about insults from Bro B and then you make insults yourself.

Show us where the PEOPLE ARE THE BRIDE IN verses 24 onward.

Waiting.

[mfblume]

Sean, you said these words:

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes Mike, we ARE come to this invisible city. ABSOLUTELY...
We just cannot see it because it is heavenly!!!

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...6&postcount=45


How can we be at the invisible city if we're on earth and it comes down from heaven in the future? You said we are come to it!

Rev 21:2 KJV And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

You just said it's here right now but is invisible. How can it be here and yet have to still come down out of heaven?

Rev 21:10 KJV And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

There it says the same thing again.

Also, how can it be invisible and yet be physical?

That is utter nonsense.

Here's what else you wrote:

Originally Posted by Sean

I guarantee that when we die or are raptured, we WILL physically see these invisible things that we cannot see now though!!!

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...8&postcount=46

Why do we have to be raptured to see a city that is now invisible? How is the rapture going to change our sight so that invisible physical things today are visible then? And you say the rapture will take us to heaven, not leave us in the earth.

So, if we already came to the invisible city and we're here on earth with it, but it's invisible, how are we going to "leave" the earth to be able to see what is "down here on earth" where we already are, and yet is going to come down to earth out of heaven later? We have to LEAVE something that is invisibly all around us NOW before we can SEE IT?

Is it going to race us to heaven when the rapture takes place and suddenly become visible. That'll be some fast hopping city, if we're in it now and it's invisible on earth and we are raptured in a twinkling of an eye but yet it beats us to heaven. Not only that, it beats us to heaven and then turns around and comes back out of and then turns right around to come back down to earth , and all that before we even get to heaven in the rapture!!!! Wow, that is one moving city!

And how is the rapture going to make us see something that is already physical if we cannot see it now? How can something be physical and invisible at the same time?

You cannot answer any of these these questions. But will revert to lies about us again concerning Rev 21.

Then you said more nonsense:

Originally Posted by Sean

We, the church are surrounded by the invisible realities!!!

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...1&postcount=47

How can something PHYSICAL be an invisible reality now? If it's PHYSICAL WE CAN SEE IT, and it cannot invisible. So, explain to us how we wil see something that is physical but currently invisible and yet we're surrounded by it right now.

And again, how can we LEAVE THE EARTH in the rapture to see something that we're al;ready surrounded with now?

And how can we be surrounded with it now if it has not even come out of the heaven yet?

You cannot answer any of these questions because you know they're absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.

You believe we're surrounded by a physical city but it's invisible. Yet you believe we will leave the earth , which means we have to leave the invisible city that is surrounding us right now, so we can see the invisible city later! But we leave it to see it? And you believe we're in the city that is surrounding us now, that is physical and invisible, and yet it is also going to come out of heaven to the earth, but yet it's supposed to be already on earth surrounding us now.

That is most nonsensical stuff I ever heard. And you try to make us look silly? lol

Hooboy!

[Sean]

Rev 21:24-27 KJV And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Where is the bride shown in those verses?
The folks that are worthy to enter into the city ARE the bride Mike.

All i see are nations that come to the city to bring honour to it. They're not occupants of the city. They come to "IT". IT is the bride. IT Is the city. Where is the bride called people in those verses?

Their not the occupants? Where do you get that? It looks like they can stay there as long as they wish.
The gates of the city are never shut and opened to all. (Unless theres a curfew for visitors...LOL)




You said it is all literal. So that demands the city is the bride. Show me one sentence in these verses from 24 onward that mentions the bride is people.





You complain about insults from Bro B and then you make insults yourself.

Show us where the PEOPLE ARE THE BRIDE IN verses 24 onward.

Waiting.[/QUOTE]



Okay, here it is...

23 And the city(place) had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it(place): for the glory of God did lighten it(place), and the Lamb is the light thereof.(place)

24 And the nations(people or nationalities) of them which are saved(saved saints) shall walk in the light of it(place): and the kings(saved people....kings and priests, Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.) of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.(place)

25 And the gates of it(place) shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations(saved people) into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it(place) any thing that defileth,(people) neither whatsoever worketh abomination,(people) or maketh a lie:(people) but they(saved people) which are written in the Lamb's book of life.



Well, the last time I checked, the Church is comprised of saved people.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Rev 21:24-27 KJV And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Where is the bride shown in those verses?
The folks that are worthy to enter into the city ARE the bride Mike.

If these people who come to the city are the bride and enter into it, then how could it be in heaven first and then come down and be called the bride before they even have a chance to enter it afterwards when it is on the earth?: They only enter it on earth/. It comes from heaven. It goes to earth. And before anyone comes to it, John was told IT WAS THE BRIDE. If the people INSIDE are the bride, and they do not even enter into it until AFTER it comes to earth, then how could John be told the bride is in heaven coming down in the city if the bride is not in it yet?

[mfblume]

Sean, rev 21 says it was called the bride before the nations on earth entered into it. If the people enter into it and are called the bride, why was John told it was the bride before it came to earth while coming down to earth from heaven with no one in it?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

Rev 21:24-27 KJV And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. (25) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. (26) And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. (27) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Where is the bride shown in those verses?
The folks that are worthy to enter into the city ARE the bride Mike.

All i see are nations that come to the city to bring honour to it. They're not occupants of the city. They come to "IT". IT is the bride. IT Is the city. Where is the bride called people in those verses?

Their not the occupants? Where do you get that? It looks like they can stay there as long as they wish.
The gates of the city are never shut and opened to all. (Unless theres a curfew for visitors...LOL)




You said it is all literal. So that demands the city is the bride. Show me one sentence in these verses from 24 onward that mentions the bride is people.





You complain about insults from Bro B and then you make insults yourself.

Show us where the PEOPLE ARE THE BRIDE IN verses 24 onward.

Waiting.

Okay, here it is...

23 And the city(place) had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it(place): for the glory of God did lighten it(place), and the Lamb is the light thereof.(place)

24 And the nations(people or nationalities) of them which are saved(saved saints) shall walk in the light of it(place): and the kings(saved people....kings and priests, Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.) of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.(place)

25 And the gates of it(place) shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations(saved people) into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it(place) any thing that defileth,(people) neither whatsoever worketh abomination,(people) or maketh a lie:(people) but they(saved people) which are written in the Lamb's book of life.



Well, the last time I checked, the Church is comprised of saved people.
[/QUOTE]



And here comes the bride!!!!