Why I Am A Futurist - Page 15

good samaritan · #**141** 02-02-2015, 07:23 PM

I think we use terminology that makes us disagree. I think that MB see's the kingdom as the church present tense. Therefore we have authority in this life and not just the one to come. Of course I believe I am part of the kingdom of God present tense, but I await the day that we take on a transformation in which I will no longer experience the wickedness of this world. The Bible says that Lot vexed his soul every day by the evil lifestyle of wicked Sodom.

mfblume · #**142** 02-02-2015, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I am not going to argue about the words "physical kingdom". I will contend for the fact God has a plan to restore the Earth. He himself is going to come again gather the elect, destroy sinners, and start all over with his saints as kings and priests on the Earth.

My belief does not stand or fall upon whether or not there is a literal new planet earth. I agree the kingdom will continue on from the cross in greater measures without sin and sinners whatever happens with the literal planet.

mfblume · #**143** 02-02-2015, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And BTW this is yet ANOTHER case where the coming of Jesus is directly linked to judgment.

15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 11:15-18

I already outlined the thought that references to the coming of the Lord are associated with both judgment and resurrection, but more correctly EITHER judgment or resurrection.

Matt 24 is wholly judgment with no resurrection. 1 Cor 15 is wholly resurrection with no judgment. And Rev 11 is wholly judgment with no resurrection like Matthew 24. Just as I believe Matt 24 is AD70, so I believe Rev 11 is as well No resurrection in those instances.

The coming with only judgment and no resurrection is AD70 coming in localized judgment. The coming which is wholly with resurrection is yet to come and is the global second coming.

But resurrection is never linked with that judgment except in simply seeing sinners go to a devil's hell.

mfblume · #**144** 02-02-2015, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I think we use terminology that makes us disagree. I think that MB see's the kingdom as the church present tense. Therefore we have authority in this life and not just the one to come. Of course I believe I am part of the kingdom of God present tense, but I await the day that we take on a transformation in which I will no longer experience the wickedness of this world. The Bible says that Lot vexed his soul every day by the evil lifestyle of wicked Sodom.

Amen.

mfblume · #**145** 02-02-2015, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Another EXCELLENT point as to whether or not we are IN THE KINGDOM in its future heavenly realm was brought up by Esaias.

Here it is again. This shows VERY CLEARLY we are yet to enter the Kingdom in its heavenly realm.

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Cor. 15:50-52

This is all about entering THE KINGDOM.

The only way we enter the kingdom today is through receiving the Holy Ghost as its FIRSTFRUITS OR EARNEST OR DOWN PAYMENT.

There is obviously a FUTURE KINGDOM to come. So I guess "futurism" isn't so ridiculous after all!

It's not a future kingdom. It's the present kingdom that simply is magnified in the end when sin is gone.

Where is this dichotomy of the kingdoms? Jesus sat on the throne already. It's the same kingdom continuing. This is where the error of not having sat on the throne of David comes in. There's no additional kingdom. Just the present one greater. So, futurism is still wrong.

Folks simply think the kingdom will become more "carnal": and material. No. It's wholly spiritual, but it certainly affects the carnal.

Evang.Benincasa · #**146** 02-02-2015, 10:22 PM

So, if the Kingdom has to be physical then Jesus isn't on the throne, and He isn't a King? Sounds pretty Trinitarian....

Esaias · #**147** 02-02-2015, 11:07 PM

There is only one kingdom. We enter that kingdom when we turn from sin and receive the Spirit, which is the earnest of what is coming. At the resurrection we will enter into our inheritance more fully. The very fact there is a resurrection begs the question, Why? What for?

The saints will be physically resurrected. We will have bodies, like Jesus now has. And as he said, Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth (not heaven).

We will be here on earth. Resurrected saints here on earth. And as Paul taught the creation itself will be delivered from its current bondage in tandem with our resurrection.

That is nothing else than what is commonly called "the millennium" is it not?

As for Christ being on the throne of David, he is in that position now. The kingdom of David IS God's kingdom. Yet the apoatles expecte a further development as they asked "will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" Notice in their question the kingdom is present tense, but needs to be restored to Israel. Not two kingdoms (as dispensationalists erroneously imagine) but one kingdom, with Israel needing it to be restored to itself.

And again, they were speaking of Israel, not "the Jews", so this isn't any supposed mass conversion of Jews at the second advent.

Esaias · #**148** 02-02-2015, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, if the Kingdom has to be physical then Jesus isn't on the throne, and He isn't a King? Sounds pretty Trinitarian....

You made several non sequitors there, brother.

It is not "the kingdom has to be physical" but that there will be a physical culmination of the kingdom (the resurrection).

From THAT it does not follow that Christ is not yet "on the throne" nor that he "is not King".

He was king from his birth (born king of the Judeans), indeed he was king from The Beginning (thy throne O God is from everlasting) and will be eternally for he is YHVH Elohim King of kings and God of gods, the Great, and Mighty, and Awesome God, etc.

Esaias · #**149** 02-02-2015, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

You sure sound like it, accusing me of denying resurrection when you know that is not true. Bad form.

How? Physical resurrection is not the kingdom. Obviously your view of kingdom is different than I've ever heard. how does a physical resurrection imply a physical kingdom?

How?

Thanks for the clarification.

But we are in the kingdom now, and it';s not physical. We're physical beings, though. So why would the kingdom become physical just because we will get immortal physical bodies after having mortal physical bodies where there was no physical kingdom?

The kingdom will become physical when we are resurrected. Not sure how this can be missed, it's simple definition. Unless we are using different definitions for physical?

Esaias · #**150** 02-02-2015, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

What has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical?

Right, but What has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical? I believe the kingdom increases exponentially after the end. How can it not? Sin is gone then. But that does not mean it will become physical.

Still... what has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical? I see no physical kingdom in any of these passages, and you say it's easy to see?

Brother Blume, please explain what you mean by physical.

When we speak that way we mean the kingdom will be fully manifested in the physical realm ie resurrection.