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Old 02-03-2015, 07:24 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post

I notice that in mention "the other thread" you did not address the point that was actually made. I don't know yet if you responded over there as I haven't been back to that section yet, but for the sake of the readers here I will repeat it.

The word translated "shortly" in Rev 1:1 is the same as that which is translated "speedily" in the parable of the unjust judge in Luke 18.

Luke 18:1
And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;

Luk 18:2
Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:

Luk 18:3
And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.

Luk 18:4
And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;

Luk 18:5
Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.

Luk 18:6
And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.

Luk 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Luk 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

First of all, the purpose of the parable is to teach the value of patience and perseverance. The context therefore is the context of promises coming to pass in spite of long delay (hence the Lord's words about not "fainting").

Verse 7 tells us how God's elect cry day and night to God, and that God may indeed "bear long" with them. There is clearly a long delay described between the commencement of the crying out to God and the Lord answering their prayers. God WILL intervene even though it appears no answers are forthcoming for quite some time (long enough to make it likely that the elect would faint).

But more importantly, Christ says truly God will avenge his elect "en tachos" (same term used in Rev 1:1). It is here translated "speedily" and clearly does not mean "soon to be done" in reference to the start of the praying, but shortly or speedily in reference to the avenging itself.

What this proves is that en tachos is NOT subject to only one, preteristic, meaning. Again, Jesus used that term in the context of the consummation after a long delay of expectancy and waiting. If the preterist's faulty understanding of Greek were correct, then Jesus would be saying people ought not to faint because God will avenge them soon after they begin crying to him, no delay needed. Which makes no sense if the elect would be likely to faint from lack of perseverance, for perseverance and patience would not be needed.

Furthermore, the Lord even connects these ideas to his coming when he concludes "Nevertheless when the son of man comes will he find faith on the earth?" The Lord drew a parallel between his teaching on the need for patience in prayer, and the need for patience in regard to his coming. This parallel simply cannot fit within a preteristic scheme of eschatology.

Peter likewise addresses the same subject in the same way.
I disagree. Verse 8 means he won't wait long as with the unjust judge. I stand by my conclusion.
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