GD, we aren't talking about individuals, we are talking about teachers of doctrines, Christology, eschatology, soteriology, etc. So, if a church whose ministry is Trinitarian they are focused on teaching that doctrine. Which is three separate individual persons who work together as one unified effort. While all three are act alone in their particular office, they never hold each other's office. Therefore making them individually gods. While a Trinitarian will refuse to accept that they do indeed believe in three separate gods, the simple logic remains. God remains at the center of the triangle, the son is god, the father is god, and the spirit is god, yet the son isn't the father, nor is the father the son. The son isn't the spirit, nor is the spirit the father. This is all pretty simple, and no mystery. These are all individuals who hold their own role, never interchange their roles, but are all individually gods. Knowing God is knowing His role in His Kingdom.
If your protology is off, your eschatology will be also.
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Forgive me, I disagree, how long did you attended a trinity church? And how long ago? If not you don't know what you are saying. Seems to me you are hung up over the term trinity, and judge them as lost based on your view of the trinity. I assume you would think the church I attend at present are lost because they baptize "in the name of the father son and holy ghost which is Jesus". There are as many views and understanding of the trinity as there are of oneness. Just that the trinitarian churches don't make the trinity an issue as the oneness do. In the last 10 years attending a trinitarian church I have not once heard teaching of the trinity. They center their teaching on Godly living not so called doctrinal issues as do oneness.
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Then logically you would also believe that any sort of baptism wasn't necessary. Concerning who baptizes who, no, you don't understand me. The evangelist Timothy was told to lay hands on no man suddenly so he wouldn't be partakers in another man's sins. This has nothing to do with baptism but with ordination. Yet, when the Pharisees came to John the Baptist's baptism they were rejected, Jesus also told His apostles in
John 20:23,
Matthew 18:18, saying "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” Also "I assure you: Whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven." This isn't talking about Catholic or Eastern Orthodox priests handing out absolution, or that Charismatics have the power to create new doctrines for the church. These verses have to do with elders and baptism. Now, does it mean that a minister forgives you of sin? Hence it is erased in heaven? No, salvation is YOU and YOUR trust in the SAVIOR. Hence the minister is the one administrating the baptism but it is all on the one being baptized who will determine the outcome. Remember Jesus called the religious leadership of His day blind leaders of the blind, but Paul in
Romans 2:19-20 that the new convert was blind, needed light, needed instruction, new converts were referred to as babies, and both Jesus and Paul teach that the elders were to bring these individuals to maturity. Now, while baptism totally relies on the one being baptized, the one who would administer baptism should understand what Phillip understood when the eunuch asked the question “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” The eunuch has enough of a Bible study that he knew one thing, he needed to be baptized, and yet, he understood that he needed to ask what was the requirement of his baptism. Phillip then tells the neophyte what he had to do, "if you trust with all your being, you may" Then the eunuch confession that he trusts that Jesus is Messiah the Son of God. Now, baptism is administered. I believe that the church is governed by elders, the apostles were mobile, like the evangelists, the apostles set things in order
Titus 1:5, and the evangelists built up on the foundation which was laid out
Ephesians 4:11-12, pastor teachers taught, and really prophets kicked tail ends
1st Samuel 16:4.
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Sorry again I disagree with your premise that baptism must be administered by a so called minister. Again we have had this discussion other places on this forum not going to reiterate it all again. Other than to say I feel you are reading into the passages you quote things that are not meant. I will say that you contradict yourself, when you use the passage in Matt 18 to say Christ gave ministers authority, yet back pedal and say that they don't forgive sins by their word, but it is on the person being baptized. Seems you reject the words of Christ when he said "whosoevers sins you forgive shall be forgiven them". Yet give ministers authority that Christ said shall not be so in Matt 20.
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As far as your cousin's experiences in the other church I don't know your cousin. You were in a type of church like the McMinnville church? Same but different? We would have to weigh out the same, and find out the differences.
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And I did not say the "same but different" these churches are all of the same mind set. Period. And I did not say my cousin was in another church he was in the McMinnville church under this pastor in question.
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Again, you don't know the preacher, you know of the preacher, and therefore he is bad. I don't know him, but this thread sure wasn't the place to find out all things and hold to that which is good. So, pray for the bad pastor (since you are sure he is indeed bad) and hope you never get in the same cross hairs he is currently in.
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