Shouting at NAYC

[votivesoul]

I read the entire quote in context, as provided by n_david, and this is what I see:

There is unlimited potential in this auditorium.

A common thing to say at rallies and conventions, especially among the youth, who are constantly struggling with identity and faith. It sounds spiritual, but it doesn't really mean anything important. It gets the emotional juices going, i.e. it's a set-up for the show-stopping part of the act to come.

God spoke to me just about 30 minutes ago and told me that if you would do a certain thing, that He would totally deliver you from all fear and inhibitions.

I am always cautious to debate whether or not God has spoken to someone, because I would hate to be a false witness against God. So I will give it a maybe, but something about the above doesn't ring true, which is this:

The "certain thing" God allegedly wanted them to do was shout, as the rest of the sermon indicates. The promise was that if they shouted, God would deliver them of "all fear and inhibition".

The only place where we are promised deliverance from fear is in 1 John 4:18. It reads that perfect love casts out fear, as I'm sure we all know. I do not see how a few minutes of shouting immediately and irrevocably perfected everyone's love and cast out their fear. The perfection of love is done by keeping God's Word (1 John 2:5). Yes, shouting unto God is a part of His Word, and keeping It can make the difference in certain areas of our walk with Him. But shouting as an act of praise doesn't mean we are keeping His Word in any other place in our lives, and so, shouting is insufficient to, and cannot enable us to, keep God's Word in total---meaning, a session of praise shouting isn't going to perfect our love, meaning, fear and inhibition isn't going to be cast out the way the Lord intends.

A shout may steel nerves, and be a bracer against pain, discomfort, or injury; it may be a release valve for spleen or stress, and in this way, may function as a war cry. Well and good, but don't make it automatically more spiritual than that. A bunch of people shouting because it's expected of them and has been indirectly demanded of them, doesn't make the shout a move of God. Imagine if after he told them to shout, no one did? Or only some did? The next thing said would have been a rebuke for denying the will of God and not getting with it.

Just because a bunch of people can respond on cue, doesn't mean anything. How spiritually immature and easily influenced are young people? Children's crusades, anyone (http://www.britannica.com/event/Childrens-Crusade)? Especially when the most famous preacher in the entire movement since Paul is the one giving the order?

I'm not sure I understand this, but in the Old Testament, people would shout at the command of God and walls would come down, enemies would be discomfitted, battles would become won.

"At the command of God..." indicating that what Brother Stoneking was about to say was the "command of God", at least according to him. See how easy it is to equate the preacher with the Lord? Maybe God really did speak to him and maybe He really did want all the people there to shout???

But as pointed out above, it doesn't quite gel with the Scriptures the way it should have if God had actually spoken.

And I thought to myself, what is it about shouting that would cause such a tremendous manifestation of power. With a little study, I found out that there is something about the human voice, that when it shouts, it shreds the air.

He's been preaching this for at least a half decade, as I heard him say the exact same thing at Mid-Winter Camp, at Parkway Apostolic Church, in Oak Creek, WI, several years ago. He also led the people there to shout.

So to pass this off as a "fresh word from the Lord" isn't honest. This appears to have been done deliberately.

Which is beside the point, since the human voice, no matter the decibel level, cannot "shred" air molecules. Air molecules are a collection of gases, chiefly nitrogen and then oxygen, (and then, other gases in extra-minute portions, for example argon). To "shred" the molecular bonds of these gases would make the air in the immediate vicinity of the shouter immediately un-breathable.

Yes, air molecules can be separated, but not by soundwaves, rather by massive shifts in temperature (See: http://www.messergroup.com/de/Info_D...or-Life_en.pdf).

And the human voice, no matter how hard one tries, can never generate sufficient temperature variations to cause molecular instability in air molecules (See: http://www.physicscentral.com/explore/poster-coffee.cfm)

You can google all day long the phrase "the human voice shreds air molecules" and you'll never find anything remotely close to whatever he claims to have found out.

Which is again beside the point, because even if somehow, the human voice could "shred" air molecules, it would

1.) Have to get to such a high decibel that everyone within close proximity, including the shouter, would immediately be knocked out if not actually killed. Sound pain threshold is around 150 decibels, meaning, when a noise of any kind gets to that level, people begin to experience pain, even to the bursting of ear drums. And such decibel levels are usually only found next to an explosion, or a jet taking off (See: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...sound-kill-you).

and/or

2.) still not have any effect upon a spiritual being like Satan or a devil, in that the effect is merely physical. The only thing that would get shredded would be the shouter and the people immediately adjacent.

The devil is the prince and power of the air. So I understand, then, that if the people of God will shout....(inaudible)"

Now that the set-up has been properly executed, and the whole convention has been put on notice of the awesome thing God was going to do if they just shouted really loud, the pay-off can be brought to bear on the gullible, i.e. the young and those not educated enough in physics to know that what he just said is a scientific impossibility.

It doesn't matter if he qualified it with "So I understand...". This doesn't get him off the hook FOR BEING FLAT OUT WRONG AND MISLEADING.

This is not about getting my hate on for Lee Stoneking. This is about realizing that we the people of God, as long as we keep buying this type of manipulative nonsense are never going to see the real thing from God. We're all too happy to just keep chopping away at all the substitutional, artificial preacher fodder. So is it any wonder that the "greater works than these" never really manifest the way we all want them to, in the movement?

It's happening. It's happening. The devil's kingdom is being shredded...

He just equated the shredding of air molecules (a literal, scientific impossibility) with the shredding of the devil's kingdom, thus leading them all to believe that they were actually shredding actual air molecules in their shout against the devil. He is telling them that the decibel level of their voice in the "shout" is doing something supernatural, as if, as Pressing_On pointed out, it was the level of their voices, and not the work of the Almighty, that was doing the job.

And pray, I thought the purpose of the shout was to deliver them from all fear and inhibitions? Why is it now an assault on the devil? Destroying the works of the devil is no guarantee against fearfulness. The flesh is fully capable of generating its own fear.

...and the demonstration of ...(inaudible)... power is upon you. You can cause the lame to walk. You can cause the blind to see. You cause the deaf to hear. You can raise the dead. Because it is written, 'These signs shall follow them that believe. In my Name, in my Name, they shall cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues. They, believers, shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.' They shall recover. They shall recover. It's on you. It's on you. It's on you. If you will clap your hands and shout with your voice, God will deliver you from all fear. 'I deliver you from all fear,' saith the Lord. 'I deliver you from all inhibitions,' said the Lord. That's it! Clap your hands, all ye people, and shout unto the Lord with a voice of triumph!"

Fantastic, if actually so. But 20,000 people a few weeks back all received the power to do signs and wonders like an apostle and no testimonies anywhere since then in the movement indicating that anyone present at NAYC caused the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf to hear, or the dead to be raised after they left? Is this a prophecy yet to be fulfilled? A promise from God that He is waiting to do? Have the 20,000 all failed in their newly received commission to, among other things, raise the dead? Or was it all a bunch of sincerely intended, but nonetheless emotional blather?

Praise God for all that He did do among those who attended. I went once and God blessed me in a way that I've never experienced, not before or since. I'm not ranting against NAYC. Nor am I against shouting, as it's a clear Biblical principle of prayer, intercession, and worship.

The issue is the deception and manipulation. Signs and wonders are primarily indicators of apostleship. Do not forget that Jesus was speaking to His Twelve first and foremost. How many people I have met over the years utterly discouraged and fretful that no matter how faithful they are, no matter how fervently they pray, no matter how much they give and sacrifice for God, they never see signs and wonders like they assume are promised to them.

In Acts, you never see all believers through the Roman empire performing the signs and wonders. You see a select group of men, apostles all, entrusted with that kind of power/authority. Maybe we've missed that?

I leave you with the following, if anyone cares to read:

https://votivesoul.wordpress.com/201...e-substitutes/

I don't hate Lee Stoneking. In fact I have defended him (remember the UN sermon post?). In a way, he played an important part in my conversion to Christianity (and I would be happy to share it with anyone who wants to know). It's not the man, but the message, that I take issue with. He, like anyone of us can, has made a mistake in this area. We all need to be able to forgive that. But the real issue is that, since he's so famous, so otherwise anointed, has seen the glory of God and has paid the price to do so, over the decades of an otherwise amazing, and amazingly power ministry, that no one in a position to do so, will speak up and say anything about these little flirtings with disaster.