Love One Another and the Cross

[shazeep]

ya, ok, thanks.
http://vistriai.com/psychopathtest/

[mfblume]

e

Originally Posted by shazeep

ya, ok, thanks.
http://vistriai.com/psychopathtest/

So, don't discuss scripture then. Just say so. I tried. Your refusal to talk bible only veered it all off into what in the world is going on with you to not deal with bible.

I will just chat with anyone who wants to talk the cross.

[shazeep]

won't hurt to take the test. Or maybe it will.
I didn't mean for this to be an either/or proposition, but a better, and more inclusive understanding of Christ's sacrifice for us than the one provided by most established churches, not just OP ones. Therefore a rehash of the Pauline doctrine that we all get in those churches--which i would like to think is productive on some level--might be useful here for anyone unfamiliar with it; but Scripture tells us, if we cannot figure it out for ourselves, that the Early Church did not have this doctrine, which only developed later.

So you might examine your argument about which comes first. God is love, and God is the Head of Christ. All this "your refusal to talk Bible" stuff is self serving, until you address the first Scripture that suggests love comes first; which you have done, when you suggested that "love is 9/10ths of the law and the prophets" is a warning to avoid loving your neighbor, as that would be following the law. Or negated, or however you might phrase that.

So, with that understanding, my part here is really done; i have found what is "sufficient for them," and have done my best to balance it with Paul's later theology--like 70 years later. I would have stopped several pages ago, but i allowed that you were a proxy for the Established Church.

6He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.

which could be translated "Since you are humans, you are surely going to focus on Paul first; but you are going to need to find Christ in the end," which might seem harsh, but it is just how we assimilate things, first physical, then spiritual. One must do it in order to understand it. Practical knowledge trumps Book knowledge. Faith without works is dead, exactly like putting off Acts 2:38 until one's deathbed would be.

Now that might seem like a flip analogy to you, but there is a sect of people who believe in doing that! Or there was; of course it is so baldly hypocritical on its face that that particular aspect of Constantinianism is not spoken--no longer "physical"--but has been assimilated into the model--is now "spiritual." We, in the Western Christian church, are fed this from birth. The link below gives an overview
https://www.westmont.edu/~work/class...tinianism.html

So if you want to "talk Bible" with me, I have like 100 verses that will testify that Love comes first--which ones do you want to discuss?

8Above all, maintain an intense love for each other, since love covers a multitude of sins.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

won't hurt to take the test. Or maybe it will.
I didn't mean for this to be an either/or proposition, but a better, and more inclusive understanding of Christ's sacrifice for us than the one provided by most established churches, not just OP ones.

What I have proposed is what all evangelicals propose, as it is exactly what the Word teaches. We have to base our beliefs upon the Bible. And this is what the bible says. And the only way to determine if it's not what the bible says its to present the passages that give this teaching and look at them and realize what they're actually saying by pinpointing how they DO NOT say what churches proclaim.

Several years ago I did a complete overhaul of my beliefs. I tossed all I was told and checked the word itself to see if those things were so. Berean. This is when I saw prophecy as I currently do, and when I studied the work of the cross in an indepth manner.


When I present my views I am showing the passages that gave me those views and explaining how they relate my views verse by verse.

Therefore a rehash of the Pauline doctrine that we all get in those churches--which i would like to think is productive on some level--might be useful here for anyone unfamiliar with it; but Scripture tells us, if we cannot figure it out for ourselves, that the Early Church did not have this doctrine, which only developed later.

What Paul preached in his epistles is what the early church believed. I am always asking questions you're not answering, so I am not sure how we can continue, but here's another one... are you saying you don't consider Paul's teachings those of the early church?

So you might examine your argument about which comes first. God is love, and God is the Head of Christ. All this "your refusal to talk Bible" stuff is self serving, until you address the first Scripture that suggests love comes first;

Everything I am saying is based on the word of God as it is in the bible. I got my beliefs from the word. And that is why I present word since you asked me to show you what passages show what I am saying.

The word teaches LAW is of works and works cannot save, and no one can ever be justified by law. Love does come first, but in what context? We can't just say love comes first and leave it at that. Especially when the Word says Law cannot justify anyone and the law commanded love.

which you have done, when you suggested that "love is 9/10ths of the law and the prophets" is a warning to avoid loving your neighbor, as that would be following the law. Or negated, or however you might phrase that.

I keep saying what you are continually ignoring, though. Yes, we need to love. But that does not save us. It's salvation by works.

So, with that understanding, my part here is really done; i have found what is "sufficient for them," and have done my best to balance it with Paul's later theology--like 70 years later. I would have stopped several pages ago, but i allowed that you were a proxy for the Established Church.

6He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.

Paul said that in reference to the LAW when he noted letter, not the New Covenant revelations of truth. So you took that one out of context.

which could be translated "Since you are humans, you are surely going to focus on Paul first; but you are going to need to find Christ in the end," which might seem harsh, but it is just how we assimilate things, first physical, then spiritual. One must do it in order to understand it. Practical knowledge trumps Book knowledge. Faith without works is dead, exactly like putting off Acts 2:38 until one's deathbed would be.

Now that might seem like a flip analogy to you, but there is a sect of people who believe in doing that! Or there was; of course it is so baldly hypocritical on its face that that particular aspect of Constantinianism is not spoken--no longer "physical"--but has been assimilated into the model--is now "spiritual." We, in the Western Christian church, are fed this from birth. The link below gives an overview
https://www.westmont.edu/~work/class...tinianism.html

When people start pigeon-holing things into categories and not concerning themselves with what the word teaches, there can be no proper discussion.

[shazeep]

no kidding.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

no kidding.

then stop pigeonholing with western accusations.


Thanks for chat for what it was. You won't talk. Won't answer questions
Won't discuss diffrrences in views of actual scriptures. What are you here for?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

then stop pigeonholing with western accusations.


Thanks for chat for what it was. You won't talk. Won't answer questions
Won't discuss diffrrences in views of actual scriptures. What are you here for?

What Shazeep looks like when he is posting with us.

[shazeep]

as i said, although i am generalizing, you are a proxy for the chartered church here, and i wanted to provide every opportunity for any opposition to God is Love to get a hearing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

as i said, although i am generalizing, you are a proxy for the chartered church here, and i wanted to provide every opportunity for any opposition to God is Love to get a hearing.

We're not denying that. That's what you keep missing. I;m, saying you're misplacing that and not allowing the overall volume of the bible teaching to correctly position that. You have something in your head you did not get from the bible, but from reasoning, as you demonstrated various times in our chats in other issues, and you deny the core truth of the love of God through the cross.

In fact, love is first only in the sense that God so loved the entire world, no exceptions, that He gave His only Son in sacrifice to die in proxy as them and thereby grant us righteousness before we personally love anybody. God FIRST loved us, before we could love. But you won't answer that either.

Your version seems to propose God loves ONLY those who love others. But the truth is His love is greater than that and loves everyone EQUALLY! EVERYONE! And His love was demonstrated in loving us through the cross so there is no respect of persons. You have a works-based show of God's love on us, and it is OUR works you claim God looks for to love us and save us You cannot answer what remits sins and what gives righteousness. And you won't allow anyone to question you assumed position. You troll through all we ever said.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What Shazeep looks like when he is posting with us.

Do you know what a troll is, shazeep? It's someone who does nothing than refute anything a particular person says without considering anything they say either. EB nailed it.