One question though...to what extent should Christians participate in civil government?
That is an excellent question.
I have no issue with Christians who back off and suggest that there is no reason or purpose.
On the other hand personally I believe in a free secular society we all bring our belief systems and moral constructs to the table. We debate and discuss those and from that we come of with as equitable a society as one can have based on the understanding that we are humans and therefore fallen. and that we are free moral agents whose connections to God are individual and not mandated....
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I have no issue with Christians who back off and suggest that there is no reason or purpose.
On the other hand personally I believe in a free secular society we all bring our belief systems and moral constructs to the table. We debate and discuss those and from that we come of with as equitable a society as one can have based on the understanding that we are humans and therefore fallen. and that we are free moral agents whose connections to God are individual and not mandated....
I like the way you think.
If you haven't already, you should check out "Founding Faith" by Steve Waldman. Very balanced approach to the role of faith in the formation of the U.S. and the concepts of religious liberty that our founding fathers had as they were establishing our government.
So if Christ returns in your lifetime you will fulfill your oath and fight to preserve the Constitution against His Divine Government?
Okie dokie.
When Christ returns, the kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdom of our God and of His Christ. It will all come tumbling down. Besides, when Christ appears, I'll be glorified and no longer of this world.
Can anyone give a scriptural presentation showing how the Bible teaches that governments and societies are exempt from obedience to God, that Christians in particular are to support man's autonomy from God?
Is Christ Lord of all? Of every area of life? He surely seems to think so, and so did the apostles and prophets. Please demonstrate from scripture any area of life that is free from God's authority.
Please show where we are taught by Christ or his apostles to stick God in a closet and only let him out on Sunday.
And let me guess... we're to be subject to YOUR interpretation of God's Law. Why not the Hasidic? Why not Conservative Judaism? Why not Catholicism's interpretation? This leaves us on a sea of subjective human interpretation regarding the divine mind.
Anyone arguing for a man run government or legal system that is based on the laws of God does not understand God.
The simple fact is, if every person alive obeyed the laws of God there would be no need for any government.
BUT the bible never suggests such a situation is even possible. The entire bible is explicit that there is a spiritual war taking place with evil and that evil is ever present.
The bible tells us that our enemy is NOT a carnal (in the flesh) enemy. Rather it is spiritual. "We wrestle not against flesh and blood..."
Further, government is that which seeks to control people. Paul suggests we "Identify with the sufferings of Christ". One cannot identify with the sufferings of Christ which included in no small part being persecuted by government, if WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.
Paul instructed over and over that the law we obey is written on the heart. NOT a law that is tangible. Paul clearly indicates that we are citizens of heaven NOT citizens of some earthly kingdom.
Any suggestion that Christians who do not desire an actual God based government aren't biblical is itself anti-biblica.
You legislate, what GOD considers a matter of the hart. period. THAT itself is an Anti-Christ spirit.
Jesus doesn't want to be the king of this world yet...
John 6:15
When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
Just obey the laws of the land as far as they do not force you to commit sin...
1 Peter 2:13-14
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
In America, we value liberty (or at least we used to). Liberty itself is sacred, holy. Even if men use said liberty to do wickedly.
And let me guess... we're to be subject to YOUR interpretation of God's Law. Why not the Hasidic? Why not Conservative Judaism? Why not Catholicism's interpretation? This leaves us on a sea of subjective human interpretation regarding the divine mind.
In other words, nobody can know what the Bible teaches for sure. We're just all floating on a sea of subjective human interpretations. Kind of like your interpretation that nations and societies should not be governed by the Word of God. That's just YOUR interpretation. It's all relative, now, isn't it? 'Don't tell me what the Bible says, it's just YOUR subjective human interpretation!'
In other words, nobody can know what the Bible teaches for sure. We're just all floating on a sea of subjective human interpretations. Kind of like your interpretation that nations and societies should not be governed by the Word of God. That's just YOUR interpretation. It's all relative, now, isn't it? 'Don't tell me what the Bible says, it's just YOUR subjective human interpretation!'
amen
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