Vetting failure led to terrorism?

[Esaias]

What's ludicrous is people think there's a "better way" than what the Bible actually says. THAT'S ludicrous.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

OK let me put it this way
You believe in Acts 2:38, so do I
You believe in One God, so do I
You believe in keeping the Sabbath, so do I

So you and me are in agreement in those three points, but what about those Apostolics which do not accept the Sabbath? Are they lost?

They are not conforming to the truth of the Sabbath, should I then say that they are totally lost.
And if they are not lost because they fail to keep the Sabbath, then our keeping of the Sabbath is then irrelevant, for this does not confer any special status.

Likewise, the Trinitarians get baptized in what they believe Jesus told them to get baptized, they believe they are keeping correctly the commandment of baptism just like the Sabbath deniers believe they are keeping the Sabbath on Sunday.

The Trinitarians believe in one God also, they never claim to believe in three gods, it is a misunderstanding in their part to believe that this one god is made up of three persons. Yet they strongly believe in one God.

God wants us to know him and understand him, but is not having the right theology 100% correct a ground to dismiss their salvation?

I know and I am sure that Trinitarians are incorrect in their theology, just like I am sure that Apostolics who do not keep the Sabbath are wrong in their theology regarding this matter. Yet if I refuse to condemn my Apostolic Brethren who do not keep the Sabbath, why should I then condemn the Trinitarians for being wrong in some other theological aspects of the Bible?

Some issues regard salvation and are a must. Other issues do not. Can't compare sabbath with baptism. One involves the cross and Christ's death and the other is about rest. Serious difference.

[Praxeas]

Vetting process?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Vetting process?

What? We're vetting people as to whether they are apostolic enough.

[Praxeas]

lol...

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Many of these images do not show the death of Christians as I recognize them from other videos I have watched.

But if these people are not born of the water and the Spirit, as Apostolics present, then is it a situation of satan's children killing satan's children?

Should I help these so-called christians live another day so that they can spread their false doctrines?

When these people die, according to Apostolic doctrine, the only place they can go is hell. Apostolic doctrine demands this! There is NO GRACE for the believer in the Trinity! NONE AT ALL-- according to current 21st century American Apostolic doctrine.

So, if I provide help for them, it won't be because they are Christians because they are not saved and can't be Christian.

If I help them, it will be because they are human and it is in my means to help them.

However, there are millions of humans suffering over there-- all of them going to the same hell because none of them believe and practice the form of gospel as presented by 21st century American Apostolics.

If the Apostolics are right, I should save my money, pray for my immediate family instead, let satan's children kill satan's children, and pray for Jesus to hurry up and return.


Can't anyone else see that the form of gospel presented by Oneness Pentecostals absolutely prohibits anyone else who calls on the Name of the Lord from being saved?

It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone who isn't baptized in Name of Jesus, or Lord Jesus, or Lord Jesus Christ, or whatever other variation-- IMPOSSIBLE for them to be saved! If they don't speak in tongues, they don't have the Holy Ghost inside them and they MUST BE LOST according to Oneness Pentecostal doctrine!

So helping them would be the same as helping a Muslim and the same as helping a Baptist and the same as helping a Trinitarian Pentecostal-- they are all lost and going to the same hell anyway-- that is according to 21st century American Apostolic teachings.

They aren't brothers. Any appeal to help them will then appeal to helping them as humans, but like I asked, with countless millions of humans needing help, what makes these people special?

In order to be consistent as an Apostolic, the answer can only be, "nothing".

They are not brothers. They are not sisters. They are not any more special than any other third world citizen that needs my help.

In order to be consistent as an Apostolic, until they are baptized our way and until they speak in tongues, they are not saved, not born again, not Christians and ultimately, not special in a world with countless millions who are suffering and lost.

Do I believe this way? Nope, but it is why I can't be Apostolic.

I need consistency.

Great post

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

http://www.vocativ.com/underworld/cr...ooter-ft-hood/


Did she? I didn't see those News reports.


Show me. How do they not match?


I only saw 1 cuffed. They don't go over and check a pulse first. Cuff first then check


Not at all. Active shooters are becoming normal and the Police want to be prepared.


Once a month? Good odds.

FBI says they got what they needed.


The theater and Sandy hook were destroyed? Immediately? Prove it


It's not. Her name is Tashfeen Malik

His is being reported as Syed Farooq or Farook, both. Why is that important?


Show me. I looked.


See above


For reals? I hear that all the time

noun
1.a person who acts in stage plays, motion pictures, television broadcasts, etc.
2.a person who does something; participant.


He opened the door and fired? Note, I don't know for sure they fired first. Police may have just went "shoot to kill", but his body was lying on the ground away from the vehicle and the door was opened.


She changed clothes.


She was shot dead in the car. She bled out there. Her dead body was inside for a long time


From who?

Police


Nobody. Didn't happen


See above

So many "whys" so much confusion.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What? We're vetting people as to whether they are apostolic enough.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Did you notice that nothing you ever post (concerning this topic) has anything to do with the Word?

No, I haven't noticed that. In fact, post number 9 on this thread is a reference to scripture.

Revelations 7:9, 10
After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Again, as alluded to earlier, there must be at least a GOOGLE of Oneness Apostolics who all agree and believe the same three or four core doctrines-- all coming to salvation after Azusa, all members of Apostolic churches.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What is truth? If truth even matter to your God?

1 Corinthians 13:2
And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

This scripture implies that it is possible for people to not understand all mysteries and all knowledge and still be saved-- but loosely.

Here is a CLEAR scripture. A clear SCRIPTURE that coincides PERFECTLY with many, many other scriptures concerning salvation.

Romans 10:8 - 13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

People were believing in Jesus Christ before Azusa. The "revelation" given by a dream and declared at a camp meeting in the middle of the night will never negate the CLEAR scriptures concerning salvation.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Elder Epley believes what he believes because he sees it in the scripture. You don't see what he sees and therefore you believe your right and everyone else is wrong, saved, but wrong? Bro, that just doesn't fly.

It does fly because the foundation of God's Church is the IDENTITY of Jesus Christ as the SON OF THE LIVING GOD and not upon the EXACT KNOWLEDGE of ALL that makes GOD who He IS.

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What rock?

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

This leaves room for some disagreement between Christians on issues that are not salvific. There are people who have wrong ideas, but are still saved because understanding the EXACT nature of who God is was never a prerequisite for salvation.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You have issues with 'CONGREGATIONS" not Apostolics across the board. Because in the Apostolic movement you have more flavors than Baskin and Robbins.

Many flavors, but EVERY Apostolic congregation I have ever come upon presents a gospel that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone else to be saved except they believe the same three or four doctrines that Apostolics hold to be salvific.

Mark 9:38 - 41
38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name,f and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39B ut Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If I made my decisions according to my feelings, being hurt or being caressed, I would get nowhere in life.

I agree with you. It's a good thing that this isn't my practice.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Trinitarians view God three sided, they literally see Him as three separate people. Please don't post to me that they see Him as singular or that they believe Jesus is God. Because they believe Jesus is a god, and God is the Father.

Nope, you wrong but even if you were right, God built His Church upon the rock of the IDENTITY of Jesus Christ as the Son of the Living God and not upon Christians having an EXACT KNOWLEDGE of how GOD is GOD.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

They believe salvation is just accepting Jesus (which for the life of me doesn't make any sense) or recite some incantation "sinner's prayer" like it is a magic spell.

There are some who think like this, just like there are some that believe as long as they're baptized the right way and speak in tongues ever so often they are saved. There are abusers of the presented gospel of all stripes. Still, you know just like I know that the gospel presented by most Trinitarians also encompasses living a life that brings glory to our God and Savior.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A vast majority of Christendom? Seriously? Bro, I have family members who are Roman Catholics and the "vast majority" mantra were chanted by them long before you or I were born. Anyone who was not a part of the Roman Catholic Church had NO salvation up till Vatican II. After that they started to open their arms to one and all. Now the Eastern Orthodox are still hanging in there with the mindset if you are not Orthodox you have NO salvation.

Basically, you are saying, "Since other people preclude others from salvation, we're justified in doing that too." This is an immature way of thinking.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

But where do these groups get these ideas? Because Jesus said Narrow is the path, and extremely tight is the door that leads to eternal life and FEW there are who will find it.

Few, in terms of all of humanity who has ever existed-- yes. Still, there is that, "number that no man could number...". What do you do with them? They are obviously saved.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Even my atheist father figured that one out, but he was always honest with himself and his family. He liked to call'em like he saw'em. He hated Christians for one reason, they NEVER read, or followed their book, or the God of their book, (my father's words not mine). He would follow his statement with this:
"If Jesus would come back in the flesh today the Christians would drag Him behind a truck and strip Him bare, then nail Him to the cross again".

My father's words not mine.

I hope that your father is alive or that he didn't pass away from this life as an atheist. However, it was through reading, prayer and counsel that I made the decision that I made.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

JD, this isn't about nice people telling you praise the Lord while they are dishing you out some cheesy corn bake, at a dinner on the grounds. Or worship services with everyone hands lifted shoulder height swaying back and forth to Hillsong.

This is about Truth, and making it through the narrow path and making into the tight gate.

For me, this is about consistency-- in my beliefs and in my life.

[KeptByTheWord]

JD, I understand your frustration with the inconsistency of the so-called Apostolic doctrine. There is a different "flavor", addition or subtraction to the doctrine in every congregation you attend, whatever "brand" of Apostolic they are. And many times there are several oneness churches in town who disdain each other and won't fellowship each other over some professed difference in their apostolic doctrines. It is sad, and it is a real problem that you are addressing.