Do Christians Sin After Salvation?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There are sins that are done presumptuously and those that are done negligently. Christians must seek God's deliverance from spiritual strongholds in their life, but their flesh is going to always give occasion to sin. We must have many alters in our lives. If I was to tell a new convert that they could never mess up again after their conversion, they would think I was crazy. We can overcome sin through the Spirit of God, but we will never be perfect while we are in this earthly body.

Agreed.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Watch out! You're probably hiding some gross sin. Buckle up you're about to get excoriated.

Perhaps the question should have been:
"...as we are being perfected"?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There are sins that are done presumptuously and those that are done negligently. Christians must seek God's deliverance from spiritual strongholds in their life, but their flesh is going to always give occasion to sin. We must have many alters in our lives. If I was to tell a new convert that they could never mess up again after their conversion, they would think I was crazy. We can overcome sin through the Spirit of God, but we will never be perfect while we are in this earthly body.

God sees it much different. Note the force with which Paul presents the idea that we cannot continue to sin.

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:2

He leaves us with the teaching not only we must cease from sin but puts the timing from our baptism.

Can a Christian continue to sin? Well yes HOWEVER if he does he should not expect to enter the Kingdom.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

God sees it much different. Note the force with which Paul presents the idea that we cannot continue to sin.

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:2

He leaves us with the teaching not only we must cease from sin but puts the timing from our baptism.

Can a Christian continue to sin? Well yes HOWEVER if he does he should not expect to enter the Kingdom.

Excellent

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

God sees it much different. Note the force with which Paul presents the idea that we cannot continue to sin.

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Rom 6:2

He leaves us with the teaching not only we must cease from sin but puts the timing from our baptism.

Can a Christian continue to sin? Well yes HOWEVER if he does he should not expect to enter the Kingdom.

Paul was refuting an ideology in Romans. Just as some Jews would take advantage of the sacrificial system for their transgressions, Paul knew some Christians would try to take advantage of the message of grace. Note the KJV says, "shall we continue in sin" and not shall we continue to sin. Before we come to God we have a lifestyle of sin. Many of us even toted around the label liar, thief murder, adulterer, etc.

We received deliverance from sins strongholds at Spirit baptism, but it still requires alters in our life of repentance. Allowing sin in our live brings imprisonment. If a child of God allows sin again into his life he allows the entanglement of sin he had once been delivered from. The later end of that man will be worse than he was at the first.

Lk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. 25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. 26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there:and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

I have seen many witnesses destroyed by the sinless life doctrine. Pentecostals I have personally been around in my youth have been labeled hypocrites. Their strong legal stance against sin later becomes condemnation to their own selves when they themselves have some fault come to light. Of course we are not to continue in sin, but that does not mean that we are above it.

As far as expecting to enter the kingdom, as Mike Blume teaches often, If you are a Christian you have already entered the kingdom of God. If by kingdom you are meaning heaven then we should not expect, but hope to enter. To expect something denotes entitlement. We are not entitled to anything, but that is where God's grace works.

Our salvation relies more on the inward work of God on the heart then just do's and don'ts. Sin is just the breaking of the law. Jesus teaches us to hang all the law and prophets on two commandments love God and love man. Therefore, we should see that God views the condition of our heart toward himself and our fellow humanity.

1 Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I am not suggesting that we can willfully sin and be held guiltless. I am saying when we fall we are to get back up. Don't every give up. I am an earthly father and my children do things to let me down sometimes, but I don't cast them off. I discipline them and send them on to do better. God is a far better and more loving Father than myself.

God's grace will not be taken advantage of, although it is limitless.

[votivesoul]

As far as expecting to enter the kingdom, as Mike Blume teaches often, If you are a Christian you have already entered the kingdom of God. If by kingdom you are meaning heaven then we should not expect, but hope to enter. To expect something denotes entitlement. We are not entitled to anything, but that is where God's grace works.

Expectation is not entitlement. Expectation is a realization that what God promised, He will do.

If His promise is eternal life, based on a certain set of criteria, if, when we meet those criteria, we don't receive eternal life, then God has lied to us.

We are co-heirs with Christ. Just as Christ had a hope to receive resurrection from the dead and an eternal place at the right hand of the Father, so, too, should we, who are adopted sons of God, have the same hope. This is expectation, and guess what?

We are entitled to it by the very promises of God!

If God doesn't give to us the very things He says we are entitled to, then our faith in Him is useless.

[Michael The Disciple]

And Christ would be just talking in vain if he did not EXPECT us to become like HIM.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. Luke 6:40

It stuns me when I see Apostolics who would slug it out to the end of time telling us if we miss one part of Acts 2:38 we are simply lost....no exceptions, if, ands, our but's.

But then when it comes to the MANY things Jesus and the Apostles taught about being perfect or sinless they balk. Then they say he could not have meant what he clearly seemed to be saying.

Jesus never said we CANNOT cease from sin. Only false teachers and doctrines of demons give us that message.

Apostolic doctrine:

1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 1 Peter 4:1-2

The disciple who takes up the cross and denies self (by the Spirit) ceases from sin. Simple.

The Apostle addresses false teaching and its fruit among the saints.

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin: 2 Peter 2:13-14

Saints are to cease from sin.

If truth were being taught today multitudes would cease from sin. Instead they are taught EVEN AFTER the new creation experience they STILL....ARE SLAVES TO SIN. Its something they can never be free from.

Sadly this is NORMAL doctrine these days. Its infected almost EVERY CHURCH and ministry circle.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

And Christ would be just talking in vain if he did not EXPECT us to become like HIM.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. Luke 6:40

It stuns me when I see Apostolics who would slug it out to the end of time telling us if we miss one part of Acts 2:38 we are simply lost....no exceptions, if, ands, our but's.

But then when it comes to the MANY things Jesus and the Apostles taught about being perfect or sinless they balk. Then they say he could not have meant what he clearly seemed to be saying.

Jesus never said we CANNOT cease from sin. Only false teachers and doctrines of demons give us that message.

Apostolic doctrine:

1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 1 Peter 4:1-2

The disciple who takes up the cross and denies self (by the Spirit) ceases from sin. Simple.

The Apostle addresses false teaching and its fruit among the saints.

Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin: 2 Peter 2:13-14

Saints are to cease from sin.

If truth were being taught today multitudes would cease from sin. Instead they are taught EVEN AFTER the new creation experience they STILL....ARE SLAVES TO SIN. Its something they can never be free from.

Sadly this is NORMAL doctrine these days. Its infected almost EVERY CHURCH and ministry circle.

[Esaias]

I think part of the problem is twofold.

1. Sinners are not being led to feel God's abhorrence of sin. Therefore their repentance is often limited or superficial. "A repentant lifestyle" is often believed to mean "WHEN I sin I will repent, again and again, each time I sin" rather than a lifestyle of maintaining that original repentance as an ongoing attitude.

2. Christ's power to deliver and save from sin is not emphasized enough or as thoroughly as it ought to be. We are to CONTINUOUSLY present ourselves as a whole burnt offering to God, a continuous ongoing total consecration to Him, and HE sends the fire to sanctify and consume our offering. He is the one who perfects us, but we must yield to his sanctifying power and grace.

And that yielding must be ongoing and steadfast.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I think part of the problem is twofold.

1. Sinners are not being led to feel God's abhorrence of sin. Therefore their repentance is often limited or superficial. "A repentant lifestyle" is often believed to mean "WHEN I sin I will repent, again and again, each time I sin" rather than a lifestyle of maintaining that original repentance as an ongoing attitude.

2. Christ's power to deliver and save from sin is not emphasized enough or as thoroughly as it ought to be. We are to CONTINUOUSLY present ourselves as a whole burnt offering to God, a continuous ongoing total consecration to Him, and HE sends the fire to sanctify and consume our offering. He is the one who perfects us, but we must yield to his sanctifying power and grace.

And that yielding must be ongoing and steadfast.

AMEN