Originally Posted by shazeep
Also, forgiveness from a person is not secondary. In fact, Jesus distinctly said he will not forgive if we do not make it right with out brothers first. Even the Lord's prayer told us we cannot ask forgiveness if we don't give it to our brothers first.
which is why i mention that it is secondary, an afterthought, in your stated model.
But that does not save me.
I find no biblical precedent for saying any of these things you listed save me.
then by all means do not regard them as salvational--that is your right, and you have my permission to stick with "read some Paul, and viola"--but see that other people have a different interpretation, that may be justified with Scripture--or don't, it is irrelevant as far as i am concerned, and likely completely irrelevant anyway.
it serves me for you and Jason to be as obnoxious as you like, in the end, so justify "be offensive" however you like, and disregard do not offend to your heart's content.
The bible is full of absolute statements when it comes to salvation. And all other passages that you feel circumvent them, actually are vague "circumventions" as you yourself admit.
i admit no such thing, there is no circumventing Paul even, for that matter, and if you have got that opinion from anything i stated then let this stand as the correction. you are duplicitous and dishonest in your replies at best, and your obfuscation is evident in many posts at this point, so i feel no need to engage with you any longer, however i did equate the two ideas, which does not mean that any "circumventing" was going on which = your "circumvention" of the important points that i have reiterated in a vain attempt to give you an opportunity to explain yourself.
Now do you wanna try again @ "Golden Rule" and how to more completely represent the cross, or not. I don't care, and will not read them, but they will be included as anonymous replies in my dissertation on the matter, as will the first answers, being as how no other elder has seen fit to negate or correct them, and my repeated requests to your governing body yield remarkably similar gibberish--which is unkind, but they also tend to obfuscate or make jokes at the important questions, and i am noticing a pattern here.
i see that below this you have yet again devolved into preaching at me, yet you have not demonstrated that you even understand the cross, or agape, except from a legal, dead faith perspective, so ttfn. I will say that you do demonstrate an amazing obliviousness of your position in a discussion; although my patience is at an end with you, you once again desire to elevate yourself in whatever manner, rather than simply clarifying the points i am challenging you on, which obviously preclude you from lecturing me.
Fyi, i doubt you are going to find anyone who can retain their equanimity in the face of multiple offenses, "accidentally" dropping the pivotal statements in quotes, disregarding...well, you get the idea. Or, since i guess you don't, i have made them plain enough. Address them or don't. goodbye.
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