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View Poll Results: Those who never heard - what happens?
All lost, no exceptions 4 36.36%
Some may be saved somehow 0 0%
Raised in Millennium with second chance to believe 0 0%
Everybody gets saved eventually 3 27.27%
Other (please explain) 4 36.36%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #11  
Old 08-24-2016, 01:36 PM
Antipas Antipas is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Those who never heard about Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
If something is true, it is true regardless if any, some, none, or all acknowledge it to be true. There is no such thing as relative truth, as in "true for you but not for me". 2+2=4 for both of us, even if I believe with all my heart that 2+2=5. In that case, I do not have an alternative truth, I simply have an error, ie a falsehood.
Being able to do simple math doesn't mean one is capable of proper spiritual discernment.

Quote:
The word truth implies objectivity, not relativity. So "true for thee but not for me" is inherently a contradiction and a non-possibility. We may have different even contradictory opinions, but not truths. If something is a truth, that simply means it is factual and corresponds to reality. And therefore cannot differ from one person to another. Facts are, after all, facts.
Let's say that you're a painter painting a commissioned work outside a field and I'm the farmer who happens to own that field. Suddenly we're confronted with a summer rain storm.

Question:
Is it a good day or a bad day? What is the "truth"?

You might look at your ruined canvas and say that it is a terrible day. I may look at my crops and say it is a good day. And indeed, we're both right. The rain was bad for you and your canvas, but it was good for me and my crops. There is your truth and my truth.

Perception is reality. You can alter your reality by choosing to perceive it differently. For example, what if I told you that there is no such thing as "death"? In fact, I don't believe there is such a thing as death. I see what most of our society calls death is a moment of transformation. It is when our soul leaves the body a butterfly leaves a cocoon. We do not die, therefore, there is no death. However, if you firmly believe in the dark and dreary concept of death that is so prevalent in our society, that is what you will experience as you die. I will be filled with joy at my transformation.

Quote:
Religion and metaphysics and ethics and philosophy and theology are a searching out of the facts, and drawing conclusions from those facts. If truth is relative, then there is no such thing as knowing - of any kind, except the delusional, illusory, non-reality kind.
Truth and fact are two very different things. For example, let's look at the story of, The Boy Who Cried Wolf....

There was once a shepherd-boy who kept his flock at a little distance from
the village. Once he thought he would play a trick on the villagers and have
some fun at their expense. So he ran toward the village crying out, with all
his might,--"Wolf! Wolf! Come and help! The wolves are at my lambs!"

The kind villagers left their work and ran to the field to help him. But when
they got there the boy laughed at them for their pains; there was no wolf
there.

Still another day the boy tried the same trick, and the villagers came running
to help and got laughed at again. Then one day a wolf did break into the fold
and began killing the lambs. In great fright, the boy ran for help. "Wolf!
Wolf!" he screamed. "There is a wolf in the flock! Help!"

The villagers heard him, but they thought it was another mean trick; no one
paid the least attention, or went near him. And the shepherd-boy lost all his
sheep.


What truth is taught here? That if you are given to lying and exaggeration no one will believe you, even if you're one day telling the truth. Now, the story is filled with moral truth. But this story is not based on "fact". This boy probably never existed, nor the wolf, or the villagers. It is expresses truth, but not fact. For just a moment, imagine if God Himself inspired the story. Would it be any less sacred or it's truth any less important, even though it is not a "fact"?

I'll address the rest of your post as soon as time permits.

Last edited by Antipas; 08-24-2016 at 02:18 PM.
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