Those who never heard about Jesus?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Being able to do simple math doesn't mean one is capable of proper spiritual discernment.

Simple math proves that 'truth' is objective, not relative. I said nothing about an ability to do arithmetic computations as a prerequisite to discerning spiritual truth. However, an inability to recognise the existence of 'objective truth' as a reality is a bar to being able to discern spiritual truths.

Let's say that you're a painter painting a commissioned work outside a field and I'm the farmer who happens to own that field. Suddenly we're confronted with a summer rain storm.

Question:
Is it a good day or a bad day? What is the "truth"?

You might look at your ruined canvas and say that it is a terrible day. I may look at my crops and say it is a good day. And indeed, we're both right. The rain was bad for you and your canvas, but it was good for me and my crops. There is your truth and my truth.

Wrong, that is not a demonstration of alternative truths. It is a demonstration of alternative opinions. A more proper analogy would be the painter paints the field, as it is raining, without the rain, while claiming it was an accurate representation of the field at that particular point in time (as it was raining). The painter says 'Well, in MY truth there is no rain, because that's not happy' whereas the farmer says 'Boy, you artistes sure are dumb, cause you can't tell when it's rainin and when it aint.' Either it's raining, or it's not. Either the painting is an accurate rendition of the facts at the time, or it's not.

Whether the raining is 'good' for the painter or the farmer is not a matter of TRUTH, but opinion. The rancher down the road might have an altogether different opinion than either the painter or the farmer. When the farmer says 'it is good' he means 'I want it, I like it, I have a need and this fulfills the need'. The rancher may think 'it is bad' meaning 'I have to bale hay today but now it's raining and all wet and so I have to put it off another day thus delaying the acquisition of winter feed for my cattle and so I don't like the rain today'. None of them are statements of objective truth except as statements of the individuals' opinions. 'It is raining' vs 'it is not raining' is a statement of objective truth-claims, one of which is false if the other is true.

Perception is reality. You can alter your reality by choosing to perceive it differently. For example, what if I told you that there is no such thing as "death"? In fact, I don't believe there is such a thing as death. I see what most of our society calls death is a moment of transformation. It is when our soul leaves the body a butterfly leaves a cocoon. We do not die, therefore, there is no death. However, if you firmly believe in the dark and dreary concept of death that is so prevalent in our society, that is what you will experience as you die. I will be filled with joy at my transformation.

Perception is not reality. Ask anyone who works as a caregiver for a dementia patient or a schizophrenic. Perception is by definition different from the reality being perceived. Perceptions can be misleading and even totally false. Furthermore, you have equivocated on the meaning of perception. There is a difference between perception as a cognizance of sensory data on the one hand, and 'perception' as an opinion or belief. By confusing those two uses of the term, you have committed the fallacy of equivocation. Sophistry thrives on equivocation. Claiming you 'perceive death as one thing' meaning in reality you have a particular opinion about death has zero bearing on what death is or is not as a factual occurrence.

Truth and fact are two very different things.

More fallacy of equivocation. Truth is that which corresponds to reality - ie FACT.

TRUTH, noun

1. Conformity to fact or reality; exact accordance with that which is, or has been, or shall be. The truth of history constitutes its whole value. We rely on the truth of the scriptural prophecies.

My mouth shall speak truth Proverbs 8:7.

Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth John 17:17.

2. True state of facts or things. The duty of a court of justice is to discover the truth Witnesses are sworn to declare the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

3. Conformity of words to thoughts, which is called moral truth

Shall truth fail to keep her word?

4. Veracity; purity from falsehood; practice of speaking truth; habitual disposition to speak truth; as when we say, a man is a man of truth

5. Correct opinion.

6. Fidelity; constancy.

The thoughts of past pleasure and truth

7. Honesty; virtue.

It must appear

That malice bears down truth

8. Exactness; conformity to rule.

Plows, to go true, depend much on the truth of the iron work. [Not in use.]

9. Real fact of just principle; real state of things. There are innumerable truths with which we are not acquainted.

10. Sincerity.

God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth John 4:23.

11. The truth of God, is his veracity and faithfulness. Psalms 71:22.

Or his revealed will.

I have walked in thy truth Psalms 26:3.

12. Jesus Christ is called the truth John 14.

13. It is sometimes used by way of concession.

She said, truth Lord; yet the dogs eat of the crums-- Matthew 15:27.

That is, it is a truth; what you have said, I admit to be true.

In truth in reality; in fact.

Of a truth in reality; certainly.

To do truth is to practice what God commands. John 3. (Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language)

So we see that your premises are factually incorrect, so it is no wonder that your conclusions are likewise factually incorrect, that is to say, not true.

For example, let's look at the story of, The Boy Who Cried Wolf....



What truth is taught here? That if you are given to lying and exaggeration no one will believe you, even if you're one day telling the truth. Now, the story is filled with moral truth. But this story is not based on "fact". This boy probably never existed, nor the wolf, or the villagers. It is expresses truth, but not fact. For just a moment, imagine if God Himself inspired the story. Would it be any less sacred or it's truth any less important, even though it is not a "fact"?

It appears you do not understand what role parables, fables, maxims, anecdotes, proverbs, and aphorisms serve in conveying truth. The story is a parable. A parable is a fictitious story designed to illustrate a fact, generally a moral rule, maxim, or ethical statement of fact. The story is fictitious, the moral of the story ('liars lose credibility even when they later tell the truth') is a moral axiom. Universal observation indicates the axiom is generally truthful, meaning the story illustrates a truth, namely that in most circumstances people do not believe known liars even if the liar states a truth. Although it is also generally true that the gullible and those not disposed to objective truth tend to believe known or even proven liars.

I think you have not really thought out the things you have accepted as the framework of your worldview. I see numerous factual errors in your premises, and assumptions, as well as lack of familiarity with the various genres of 'spiritual literature' as illustrated by your obvious unfamiliarity with the concept of parables and how they relate to 'truth'.

As a result, I do believe you are not at all qualified to make any kind of believable statements about 'the world's religions' and much less about mankind's religious literature.

Again, if a person can't recognise that 1+1=2 as an objective fact not subject to opinion then it is highly doubtful they have anything substantive to say about metaphysics and philosophy.