Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
The whole problem with one steppers is they think because baptism is a physical act that it can only be salvation by works if we say it's necessary for salvation.
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The problems are that if you say that baptism is necessary for salvation that
1)Salvation is based on a "work" or ritual that we do and not on Christ. There is nothing wrong with baptism, it is holy, righteous, and a commandment of the Lord. However the simple ritual is no more effective to regenerate us than doing other pious works equally commanded such as prayer, the Lord Supper, scripture reading, church attendance or giving alms. *IF* baptism in the most literal sense does indeed actually save us, then the work of Christ becomes secondary to our own. NONE of this is a denegration of baptism, which I, as a "one stepper" affirm to be a vital part of the Christian experience. As I've said many times, the man who is justified by faith will be baptized if there is any opportunity to do so.
2)If you say it's necessary for salvation, then you have to say in what way. The normative answer is "the forgiveness of sins" or similar "the washing away of sins". Now then if these things are literal and not figurative, we again have a big problem, because the WHOLE of New Testament revelation (to say nothing of early church practice) does not support this view. Specifically the detailed teaching of Paul on justification by faith in his epistles, especially Romans and Galatians, nor the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels, nor the epistle of John which is written specifically so that we can know that we have eternal life, as a test for every believer. But it has a bigger problem....
3)If one asserts baptism is necessary for salvation,and that baptism forgives sin,
Acts 10:45 forever destroys that view. If indeed baptism is what cleanses us in the literal sense, and indeed it is at baptism that God forgives our sins, then it is impossible for a person to receive the Holy Ghost (thus be regerated/born again) while still in sin. Twist the scriptures as one will, if sin is forgiven in baptism, this is an insurmountable mountain of a problem. Oh, I know, we then make a distinction between remission and forgivenss, but of course such an interpretation falls apart once we move out of the KJV which uses both terms for the same word) into the Greek.
This position is simply untenable. It will not hold up, but its not unique to oneness pentecostals. Catholics and Church of Christ share this view of baptismal regeneration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
None of them believe Ro 6:3 refers to water baptism. None of them. 1 Peter 3 through 4 proves it is water baptism when you compare Peter's words with Romans 6.. |
None?
I do. Have never been convinced
Romans 6:3 refers to Spirit baptism. I am aware of the argument, but I do not think it fits the context.
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