It's Your Fault People Are Homosexual by Emma

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by madras

A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

It isn't that easy. Many have twisted up the notion that being "born" with an innate sinful proclivity such as homosexuality is the same as arguing that it isn't a "sin". When a gay person says, "I was born this way.", I typically answer, "We're all born sinners, my friend."

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It isn't that easy. Many have twisted up the notion that being "born" with an innate sinful proclivity such as homosexuality is the same as arguing that it isn't a "sin". When a gay person says, "I was born this way.", I typically answer, "We're all born sinners, my friend."

Ok here goes some sacred cows.

Help me Jeebus...

God set into motion His entire creation and He commanded Adam and Eve to "Be fruitful and multiply."

So He gave two perfect beings the ability to self replicate and said,"I made you, now you scamper off and make more of yourselves."

Meaning that the process of replication was now separated from the involvement of God.

God doesn't micromanage His creation...He made it with the ability to function autonomously.

Sin enters the picture.

So now we have two corrupted creations still with the ability to make babies...Sinful babies...babies infected by the curse of sin.

Does God make sinful babies?

No

We do.

If God was responsible for making babies, that means His power would be at the mercy of every act of fornication, adultery, or rape.

Therefore, the argument that,"I was born gay, or trans", I'm like ,"Ok, I was born a sinner too."

When they say,"Well God made me this way and God doesn't make mistakes" I say,"God didn't make you....Your parents did...parents under the curse of sin that have now transmitted the curse to you."

"Why did God create all the starving kids in Africa?????"

He didn't...Their parents did and they did it using the process He gave us to do so.

"My baby was born with all these illnesses and God doesn't make mistakes so that must mean that it's His will!"

Nope, it's a result of the fall, and that illness isn't Gods will...He didn't create them like that and He didn't give them that.

So what is the answer?

The answer is that we blame God for a lot of things that isn't His fault. God didn't make you a certain way just so He could heal you or deliver you from the way that He made you. That's crazy talk.

The blind man healed by Jesus....The disciples asked,"Who sinned? Him or his parents?"

Jesus responded,"Neither, but this was that the works of God may be made manifest."

Notice that He did not say that the blindness was a work of God...

Anyway I'm half asleep...Sorry for the ramble.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Ok here goes some sacred cows.

Help me Jeebus...

God set into motion His entire creation and He commanded Adam and Eve to "Be fruitful and multiply."

So He gave two perfect beings the ability to self replicate and said,"I made you, now you scamper off and make more of yourselves."

Meaning that the process of replication was now separated from the involvement of God.

God doesn't micromanage His creation...He made it with the ability to function autonomously.

Sin enters the picture.

So now we have two corrupted creations still with the ability to make babies...Sinful babies...babies infected by the curse of sin.

Does God make sinful babies?

No

We do.

If God was responsible for making babies, that means His power would be at the mercy of every act of fornication, adultery, or rape.

Therefore, the argument that,"I was born gay, or trans", I'm like ,"Ok, I was born a sinner too."

When they say,"Well God made me this way and God doesn't make mistakes" I say,"God didn't make you....Your parents did...parents under the curse of sin that have now transmitted the curse to you."

"Why did God create all the starving kids in Africa?????"

He didn't...Their parents did and they did it using the process He gave us to do so.

"My baby was born with all these illnesses and God doesn't make mistakes so that must mean that it's His will!"

Nope, it's a result of the fall, and that illness isn't Gods will...He didn't create them like that and He didn't give them that.

So what is the answer?

The answer is that we blame God for a lot of things that isn't His fault. God didn't make you a certain way just so He could heal you or deliver you from the way that He made you. That's crazy talk.

The blind man healed by Jesus....The disciples asked,"Who sinned? Him or his parents?"

Jesus responded,"Neither, but this was that the works of God may be made manifest."

Notice that He did not say that the blindness was a work of God...

Anyway I'm half asleep...Sorry for the ramble.

Some one tells me they're born gay, I do not believe it since no one is born gay... they're usually victims of gay child abuse.... but I said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!

[madras]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some one tells me they're born gay, I do not believe it since no one is born gay... they're usually victims of gay child abuse.... but I said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!

Do you agree with the premise that babies are sinful because of the parents (nurture) and not because of Adam's transgression (nature)?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by madras

Do you agree with the premise that babies are sinful because of the parents (nurture) and not because of Adam's transgression (nature)?

I believe infants are born with the force of sin in them by Adam's ingestion of the fruit of the knowledge of good and devil. And when they come to the age of accountability... able to decide... they will sin.

[Aquila]

jediwill83, I see it like this...

God creates a perfect creation with two perfect human beings. They are perfect in every way. Their bodies are biologically prepared to live forever. Their souls are rather naïve, seeing they are not yet a week old. However, they have full capabilities of reason. Spiritually, they are in union with God. All is well.

Then... the serpent tempts them and they sin.

The first thing that happens is on the spiritual level. God is holy, and so by sinning now the spiritual union they had with God is now severed (spiritual death). This triggers an awareness of this severing to their minds (the soul), now they feel fear and shame. Something has changed. Something has gone tragically wrong. God curses the serpent, Eve, and finally Adam. They are driven from the garden and cut off from the tree of life, which would have provided what their bodies needed for eternal life.

Now that they are cut off from eternal life, their bodies begin to change. Hormones are released triggering processes relating to aging, susceptibility to disease and infection, and chemical reactions in the brain that affect their moods are now less balanced/controlled and are more volatile. These chemical reactions make them susceptible to depression and numerous other neurological conditions. Dopamine and the brain's reaction to it activates a network of extensive pleasure sensors that cause them to be more disposed to seeking pleasure and comfort. Being cut off from the tree of life and their union with God, biologically speaking they are becoming... animals.

This condition is causing a chain reaction of innumerable bio-genetic changes that spread down to their very DNA. The genetic sequencing of their chromosomes has now changed to such a degree that all these changes will become the innate condition of their progeny.

One of the many things that these changes have done is... these changes opened them up to having children with genetic defects. These genetic defects can have a profound effect on the condition of their children and their children's children. These defects range from any number of defects affecting physiological development to biochemical development. And as a result... even children who look relatively normal could have significant biochemical issues that affect their neurological system and emotions.

Genetics, being as they are, also appear to carry some degree of "genetic memory". Actions, events, trauma, etc. that significantly effect or altar the biochemical elements of the brain become encoded in their genetic sequencing... thereby passing such information down to their descendants genetically in a series of genetic switches that just need to be activated to wreak their havoc.

Now, their flesh craves pleasure, comfort, fullness, and has an innate sense of self preservation that supersedes almost all other impulses. Now, actions and events that have caused them great pleasure, or even great trauma, are passed down to their children, making their children and their children's children bear the burdens of their ancestors.

Their flesh is like a wild beast that desires pleasure, comfort, and fullness without regard for anything. Biologically speaking, they have become... the human animal.

However, they are unique to animals. They have a soul (combination of reason, will, and emotion - or "self"). They also still have a soul that is cut off from God. Now one must exercise will to over come the impulses of the flesh. Having the "spirit" (or "inner man") regenerated helps to strengthen that will and more readily overcome the desires of the flesh.

[Aquila]

Here's a problem. If we say that someone isn't born gay, then we say it is a "choice". Now, there is always a "choice" with relation to acting on our desires or impulses. However, there isn't always a choice in relation to what those desires and impulses are.

For example, I'm straight. I have always been straight. Women turn me on. Females have turned me on since my first glance at a lingerie add at about 11 years old. I couldn't "choose" to be gay if I wanted to, my body wouldn't "respond" with enough arousal response to even perform the act. So, being gay wouldn't be a choice for me. I'm be repulsed.

Gay people report something similar. They have always been gay. Since puberty the same gender turns them on. Many fight this impulse and live as straight people virtually forcing themselves to perform sexually with the opposite sex, even within the confines of a marriage. But the truth is, they are gay and always have been.

Sexologists tell us that sexuality is a spectrum and most people fall somewhere in between being 100% straight or 100% gay. But as you get to each side of the spectrum it becomes less and less likely that one will respond to sexual stimuli from the opposite end of the spectrum. However, in the areas of the spectrum closer to the middle, a person is more likely to respond to either gender sexually, indicating a greater propensity for bisexuality. Dead center would be 100% bisexual, meaning one could freely choose either male or female with the same level of preference and satisfaction. Thus the only people that could conceive of one's sexuality being a choice are those who are... closer to the bisexual area (or middle) of the spectrum.

That's why I tend to laugh at people who insist that it is a choice. Because clearly in their minds such a choice is possible. In a way, they're telling on themselves. LOL!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some one tells me they're born gay, I do not believe it since no one is born gay... they're usually victims of gay child abuse.... but I said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!

Actually, there are significant numbers of people who were raised in conservative religious homes that still come out as being gay, though they were never abused.

However, this is a complex issue. Those who were abused might very well perpetuate their abuse through same sex attraction. So, I'd say that abuse is definitely a "factor", but it isn't a factor in every case.

There are multiple factors beyond abuse to consider.

One is genetics...

For example, the blind studies using pheromones and the brain's biochemical response. Those who self identified as being gay or straight were given strips of cotton. Each strip of cotton had a sample of either female or male pheromones on them. The brains of those who identified themselves as straight biochemically responded to the strips with pheromones from the opposite genders. The brains of those who identified as gay biochemically responded to the strips with pheromones from the same gender. Please understand, this was a blind study. The individuals in the study had no idea what the study was even for, let alone what they were being asked to smell.

In essence, as it relates to gay people, the biochemical responses of the brain triggers the centers of the brain that make the same gender smell more appealing. This is related to genetics. Something is all twisted up here in gay people. Their brain has wires crossed somewhere causing the brain to respond pleasurably to the same gender.

Another factor is what is called genetic memory...

Child psychologists discovered a disproportionate number of children of 9/11 survivors suffering from PTSD relating to loud noises, falling, falling debris, fear of flying, etc.. The problem was, most of these children were not even conceived until after 9/11. Thus the question was, why are these children suffering from PTSD relating to an event they never personally experienced? Studies began to reveal a pattern. Parents in traumatic circumstances long before the conception of their children had a higher rate of their children having fear or PTSD response relating to similar events. For example, a woman is attacked by several dogs. Five years later, she has a child. That child has an irrational fear of unfamiliar dogs. Also, there appeared to be a greater percentage of children who responded to circumstances relating to events that happened to their mothers than their fathers. They even found that certain aversions, fears, and phobias can be found within specific groups of people. For example, Scott-Irish people whose ancestors who experienced the great potato famine have higher rates of thyroid disorders and conditions relating to the storage of body fat. It is almost as though their bodies remember the famine and is in survival mode.

So, they performed a number of different experiments. One involved shocking lab rats. Everyone loves shocking lab rats, right? So this example will be entertaining. lol What the scientists did was they bred a generation of lab rats. They separated the male and female lab rats and verified that no females were pregnant. They then periodically filled the cage with the scent of rose petals... and began shocking rats. lol They did this several times to make sure they made a deep impression on the rats. So deep in fact, that when they began filling their cages with the scent of rose petals... the rats would flee and hide to avoid being shocked. Then the scientists stopped the process. They allowed the mice time to calm down, because they were rather fearful of any intrusion into their cages. After the rats calmed down and seemed to be behaving normally, they integrated the males and females. These rats sired a new generation of rats together. Once these baby rats were old enough to be separated from their parents they isolated them. The filled their cages with various new scents. These rats responded inquisitively to each new scent. However, when they released the scent of rose petals... over half of these baby rats who had never smelled the scent of rose petals before, and had never experienced being shocked after smelling the scent of rose petals, began fleeing for cover. Heart rates jumped and panic response activated.

How in the world did this new generation of rats associate the scent of rose petals with danger? It appeared to differ when only the mother or father experienced the scent associated shockings. If only the mother was shocked, over half responded to the scent of rose petals. If only the father was shocked it was under half. Those rats who were never exposed to the scent of rose petals or shocked... their children had no panic response at all.

Somehow the traumatic experiences of the parent rats were being passed down to their baby rats. The believe that the biochemical responses in their brains not only altered brain chemistry (as PTSD does), but it also effected their genetic make up, building "switches" into their genetic sequence that are passed down to their children. Under the right conditions, these "switches" are activated and a panic response based on an event that never happened to them is the result. Scientists believe that this is not only absolutely fascinating, but that it is an absolutely necessary biological function to ensure the survival of a species. A way to ensure that proceeding generations have a built in survival reflex should they face what their parents faced.

They also found that as they get further from the original generation of mice who were indeed shocked, fewer and fewer of the proceeding generations appear to be so easily triggered. But the response lingers in the minority... and can even skip generations.

Now, this could have an impact on human sexuality. Because it may not be that a given gay person was abused... it could be that a parent, grandparent, or great grandparent was abused. It could be that at some point a parent, grandparent, or another ancestor had a rather traumatic or extremely "wild" experience that left such a deep impression, that their genes passed down the genetic memory of the event and as a result, it is affecting a present generation's sexuality.

Scientists are starting to find that our genetics are much like play dough, they can be shaped and effected by a number of life experiences, and that the impressions left from these experiences can be passed down to proceeding generations.

There are other factors too... but I found these the most interesting.

[Aquila]

The point is this, the idea that we're all born with a clean and sinless slate, without sinful impulses, or any effects from the sins and experiences of our ancestors is poppycock.

The fall has indeed messed us up to such a degree that even our very genetic make up is saturated with sin, pain, and injury.

If you have something strange that you struggle with - an irrational fear, phobia, compulsive behavior, sexual deviance, or the like... investigate your family tree. Try to dig up all the dirty little secrets nobody has talked about in generations. The likelihood is rather high that you'll discover that you bear the curse of the sins of our ancestors, or the scars of their trauma and abuse.

[Aquila]

Ever notice that you don't have to teach children to hit, bite, harm, scratch, fight, scream, demand, become enraged, etc.? However, you do have to diligently teach them not to harm, fight, scream, demand, become enraged, and such like?

You're battling that ol' fallen and sinful nature of their flesh.

Don't believe me? If they aren't born with a fallen sinful nature, choose NOT to discipline them. No punishments or spankings for things they do wrong. And after 18 years examine the product you've allowed to develop.

This is why the Bible tells us that if we spare the rod, we hate our children. Because they need the discipline to help them overcome their innate sinful impulses.