Defending John Macarthur

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

As stated previously, I don't believe in the blood vials. I do believe Hebrews 9 and 10 answers your question.

Amen, now wasn't that painless and easy.

[houston]

Blood vials. Lol. Wow. Do straw men have a need for blood?

[Originalist]

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. (Col. 1:20)

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:10)

As Macarthur pointed out, "blood" and "death" are synonyms of one another.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Originalist

As Macarthur pointed out, "blood" and "death" are synonyms of one another.

My response to that is if that's the case, why the requirement for the Israelites to put blood on their doorposts? If MacArthur is right, and I don't believe he is, them killing a lamb should have been enough.

And I keep coming back to "without shedding of blood is no remission." Even MacArthur says Jesus could have died any way....even that which did not include blood. But it had to be bloody, because it's the blood applied which saves...not just a death occurring.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

My response to that is if that's the case, why the requirement for the Israelites to put blood on their doorposts? If MacArthur is right, and I don't believe he is, them killing a lamb should have been enough.

And I keep coming back to "without shedding of blood is no remission." Even MacArthur says Jesus could have died any way....even that which did not include blood. But it had to be bloody, because it's the blood applied which saves...not just a death occurring.

Blood has a major significance in all ancient rituals. Blood and water comes out of the side of Jesus just as Eve comes out of Adam's. Blood and water is the birth of the Church. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Blood had to be struck at the post and the lintel for death to passover. Jesus is our passover, baptism in Jesus name is the water we pass over from death into life.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

My response to that is if that's the case, why the requirement for the Israelites to put blood on their doorposts? If MacArthur is right, and I don't believe he is, them killing a lamb should have been enough.

And I keep coming back to "without shedding of blood is no remission." Even MacArthur says Jesus could have died any way....even that which did not include blood. But it had to be bloody, because it's the blood applied which saves...not just a death occurring.

Exactly... He mentions the use of violent bloody deaths of animals all throughout the OT, and the "blood" signifying the violence of Christ's death in the New Testament. He is simply saying there was no "power" in the liquid itself.

[Originalist]

MacArthur.....

I believe that Jesus was 100 percent man and as man He had human blood. And I believe that when He died on the cross He shed that blood. I believe it came out in His forehead, it came out in His side, it came out in the open wounds in His hands and His feet, and I believe He shed His literal blood on the cross. And I believe that the blood that came out of His heart and the pericardium around the heart when it says blood and water came out piercing, so forth, was indicative of the fact that He was shedding His blood. And I believe it was essential that He die a death that included bloodshed because He was the perfect anti-type of all the Old Testament pictures of the sacrificial animal in which blood was poured out. If you understand the Old Testament it says, "The life of the flesh is in the blood.," then the pouring out of the life is indicative of the...that the life of the pouring out of the blood is indicative that the life is flowing out. The shedding of blood is a very graphic way to see the life flowing out.

I recently went hunting and I shot...the only thing I've ever shot...was a big elk and I went over and watched the elk die. And you have this...at least I did...you have this tremendous sense that life is going out as you watch that blood come out of that animal. That was the picture in the sacrificial system. And that was the picture on the cross that Christ was giving His life being poured out symbolically in a sense as His blood came out, His life came out....not just symbolically but really His life came out when His blood came out since the life of the flesh is in the blood.

So I believe in the literal death of Christ, the literal shed blood of Christ, that He was fulfilling the pictures and symbols of the Old Testament in dying a sacrificial death. Now what I said some years ago was that I do not believe that there is...there was something in that blood itself that saves people. In other words, in the chemicals of it, that's what I said. I don't believe, for example, the Roman Catholic transubstantiation where, for example, the cup is turned into blood, you drink the blood that ministers grace to you. I don't accept that. I don't accept something magic and nobody has in the history of Christianity that has been in the mainstream of the doctrine of soteriology. We see that the death of Christ was an atonement for sin. He died a sacrificial blood-shed death but there's nothing in the blood to save or Jesus could have bled on people and not died. He could have cut His finger and that would have been enough if it's just the bleeding. So I said that some years ago.

And then it was taken out of context and it was put in a magazine that I didn't believe in the blood of Christ, and that was just enough for people who wanted to attack me to have some ammunition. Now you have to know the bottom line. I was told some months ago that there was a prayer meeting held by t he faculty of a certain institution and in that prayer meeting the main prayer request was, "Lord, help us find some way to discredit the ministry of John MacArthur." That was the prayer meeting. And they set about to find a way to discredit the ministry. And so they came up with that and they have spun that thing all across the country now, all around the world. And I believe exactly what the Bible teaches about the shed blood of Jesus Christ, no more and no less. But I believe we are saved through the sacrificial death of Christ for our sins as our substitute, a death in which He shed His blood. And I...every time I celebrate the Lord's table and take the cup of communion, I praise God for the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I don't waver on that one bit. But again, you have to understand this is a conspiracy, folks, from beginning to end this is a conspiracy of people who want to discredit this ministry for whatever reasons, I'm not sure. But that's what's behind it.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Blood has a major significance in all ancient rituals. Blood and water comes out of the side of Jesus just as Eve comes out of Adam's. Blood and water is the birth of the Church. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Blood had to be struck at the post and the lintel for death to passover. Jesus is our passover, baptism in Jesus name is the water we pass over from death into life.

So you believe then the Spirit baptism is only an endowment of power for service and not the spiritual quickening that resurrects us from spiritual death? Just seeking clarification as you seem to be implying that this life is imparted unto us in baptism.

[Originalist]

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Synonyms.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Originalist

"The life is in the blood" simply means you cannot live without it. It is not saying there is some force in the blood that imparts life to others.

Do you know what nephesh is?

It's not some "force" in the blood. It's a person's soul, their inner essence of being. Since this inner essence of being is in the blood of all humans, and even in animals, to a degree, when blood is shed, this inner essence is lost, hence why the physical body dies if sufficient quantities of it are lost (Also, it's why murder [shedding of blood] and the drinking and eating of blood was strenuously forbidden by Torah code of conduct).

Jesus died of cardiac arrest due to massive hemorrhage brought on by trauma and shock.

When this happened, more than just liquid poured out. His inner essence of being, what is considered His soul in Isaiah 53:10, also departed His flesh, when He died. It was this soul, that the Father would not leave in Sheol (See Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:27), this inner essence of Christ's being, that propitiated the Father, since it was a life lived in perfect obedience, submission, and humility, even in death.

This same inner essence of Christ's being is imparted to us when we receive the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9), or Spirit of God's Son (Galatians 4:6). This is why the Spirit is life, because of righteousness (Romans 8:10). Because of Christ's righteousness, His Spirit imparts new life to us--HIS LIFE, gained again by the glory and power of the Father when God raised Jesus from the dead.